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Old 09-20-2013, 03:41 AM   #16
ferals5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIZ View Post
Alternator is variable output , depending on RPM of the motor driving it too. (400W at high revs).


not variable, the voltage regulator dumps unwanted juice as heat
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:47 AM   #17
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Settle......

Found this, best bit of Info I have found so far.....

http://mistergizmo.com/bmw/f800electrical.pdf

Comments...

352 Watts at 3000rpm.
Erica Lights 120 watts
Low Beam Baseline 147 watts (my low beam and High are 35W HID so save a bit of juice here..)
High Beam 56 watts
Grips 46 (on high)
Cooling Fan 64

= 433 Watts... Bit over me thinks (393 with HID conversion)

With Krista brings it down to 363 Watts (323 minus watts saved from my HID headlights). High and low beam now 35 watts instead of 55 watts so save 40 watts there.. Still food for though...
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:56 AM   #18
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not sure about your 800 but on high beam are the low beam bulbs still on?
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:01 AM   #19
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not sure about your 800 but on high beam are the low beam bulbs still on?
Yeah on High beam both Hi and Low beam bulbs are on. High beam on the F800 kinda illuminates above the Low beam line (for more distance) and fills in around the edges of the low beam a bit more.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:44 AM   #20
neilaction
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Originally Posted by ferals5 View Post

not variable, the voltage regulator dumps unwanted juice as heat
Err, there's more to it than that.
A regulator doesn't simply dump unwanted energy as heat. It fundamentally regulates the voltage. (and maybe a bit of current. ) The alternator will produce a voltage that will vary with rpm. It's rectified and then the regulator smooths this out and applies a steady voltage to the battery regardless of rpm. (almost ) The power capacity of the alternator will determine what current it can deliver and as the load increases the current demand increases. The voltage supplied to the battery remains constant. A good regulator circuit will generate little heat regardless of the load or rpm.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by neilaction View Post
Err, there's more to it than that.
A regulator doesn't simply dump unwanted energy as heat. It fundamentally regulates the voltage. (and maybe a bit of current. ) The alternator will produce a voltage that will vary with rpm. It's rectified and then the regulator smooths this out and applies a steady voltage to the battery regardless of rpm. (almost ) The power capacity of the alternator will determine what current it can deliver and as the load increases the current demand increases. The voltage supplied to the battery remains constant. A good regulator circuit will generate little heat regardless of the load or rpm.
your both correct, permanent magnet (brushless) system, (most bikes) the regulator has no control over output,,, and dumps excess as heat. Brush & slip ring system (most cars and some bikes) voltage regulator regulates output by varying excitation of rotor via brushes & slip rings
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:17 AM   #22
neilaction
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your both correct, permanent magnet (brushless) system, (most bikes) the regulator has no control over output,,, and dumps excess as heat. Brush & slip ring system (most cars and some bikes) voltage regulator regulates output by varying excitation of rotor via brushes & slip rings
True but that's not the point I was trying to make. A 400w Alternator feeding a 100w load does not dump 300w as heat. A permanent magnet system will supply current as required and dump the excess energy caused by the alternators higher voltage at this current. No load, very little heat, and not visa versa. The brush and slip ring system is more efficient.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by neilaction View Post
True but that's not the point I was trying to make. A 400w Alternator feeding a 100w load does not dump 300w as heat. A permanent magnet system will supply current as required and dump the excess energy caused by the alternators higher voltage at this current. No load, very little heat, and not visa versa. The brush and slip ring system is more efficient.
Fair point, when it gets this deeply into it we really need to start differentiating between Voltage, Current, and Power. A bit outside the scope of this thread, apart from which it's too late at night and trade school was too many years ago
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:29 AM   #24
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Fair point, when it gets this deeply into it we really need to start differentiating between Voltage, Current, and Power. A bit outside the scope of this thread, apart from which it's too late at night and trade school was too many years ago
And don't forget energy. A personal favourite.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:32 AM   #25
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And don't forget energy. A personal favourite.
I like this place, it makes me stretch my brain sometimes
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:49 PM   #26
ferals5
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Err, there's more to it than that.
.
Yes I did apply the KISS principle...maybe too much so
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #27
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And don't forget energy. A personal favourite.
energy = power + time...

Regulators .. shunt or series?
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by fnatic View Post
Settle......

Found this, best bit of Info I have found so far.....

http://mistergizmo.com/bmw/f800electrical.pdf

Comments...

352 Watts at 3000rpm.
Erica Lights 120 watts
Low Beam Baseline 147 watts (my low beam and High are 35W HID so save a bit of juice here..)
High Beam 56 watts
Grips 46 (on high)
Cooling Fan 64

= 433 Watts... Bit over me thinks (393 with HID conversion)

With Krista brings it down to 363 Watts (323 minus watts saved from my HID headlights). High and low beam now 35 watts instead of 55 watts so save 40 watts there.. Still food for though...
Quoting your PDF as you have seen, answers all of your questions.

Great bit of info especially this bit:

Alternator output (held at constant 13.6 volts)
1280 rpm (idle)
17.7
241
94 watts over baseline load
3000 rpm
25.9
352
205 watts over baseline load
4500-7500 rpm
27.8
378
231 watts over baseline load**
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:36 AM   #29
KIZ
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Originally Posted by PBee View Post
Quoting your PDF as you have seen, answers all of your questions.

Great bit of info especially this bit:

Alternator output (held at constant 13.6 volts)
1280 rpm (idle)
17.7
241
94 watts over baseline load
3000 rpm
25.9
352
205 watts over baseline load
4500-7500 rpm
27.8
378
231 watts over baseline load**
So power output increases with Speed of rotation of alternator,.. Battery will take up the slack of load at idle and charge at higher RPM.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:23 AM   #30
Wilmo
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Originally Posted by fnatic View Post
Hey all,

Firstly I know this subject can be found with a google search, but the solution given is fit all electrics and test to see if battery is draining, if so turn some stuff off.

Doesn't help me much, basically I have a 2013 F800gs apart from heated grips, GPS (to be installed), HID Hi/Lo beam (35w each). That is all the juice I am using so far, I don't use heated clothing and won't be in the future, outdoor adventure junkie so I layer if its cold.

What I am currently undertaking is fitting some AUX lights, got BMW bracket ordered now just working out which ones. I have decided on Clearwater (know its expensive) but I ride a lot to work and at night. I am looking at their lights and their Wattage rating. I can fit the larger ERICA/Krista lights but the erica's are 60W each on high. So this brings me to my question (finally I KNOW!!!)

If I have grips, GPS, High beam and ericas on full (120W for Erica's) is that tooo much for the F800gs 400W alternator?

Could go Kristas at 70W high beam combined but if I can want as much light as I can pack into a single unit so the ERICA's are really what I am after....

Cheers for any input.


Got told was 150W to run the bike not sure how accurate that is.
How about buy LED lights, a lot less power draw......
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