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Old 10-31-2013, 01:46 PM   #1
Beezer Josh OP
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Transmission woes?

Fellow Airheads, I have a noise coming from my transmission. I was messing with my idle today and, unrelated to messing with my idle, I pulled in the clutch lever, i.e. disengaged the transmission. Wow! The bike got a lot quieter. I let the clutch lever out, reengaging the transmission, and the noise was back. I repeated this several times. I got down on my knees to listen and, sure enough, the noise comes from the aft part of the engine, but I couldn't tell where it was coming from in the transmission. I would suspect an internal bearing.

So, what next? I don't think it's the throwout bearing; I think that would make noise with the clutch lever pulled in. I would imagine I'm in for a transmission teardown, and that's fine as winter is approaching. What are the latest and greatest resources for information on tearing into a transmission? I like working on my bikes myself, so sending it off is not an option for me at this point. I don't mind buying tools or beer, so almost anything goes. Discuss amongst yourselves.

I forgot to add the bike is a 1973 R75/5 with almost 70,000 miles, and the odometer was working when I bought the bike.

Beezer Josh screwed with this post 10-31-2013 at 01:55 PM Reason: Added model and year
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
ME 109
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I think they all do it Josh.

Mine does.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
disston
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This is a common problem but not a big deal with 5 speeds. I don't know if 4 speeds have the same rattle noise. In the 5 speeds the advice is to ignore it. You have a 4 speed and will have to wait for a 4 speed expert but I do suspect it's sort of the same thing.

Taking the clutch throw out pieces out and cleaning them is not a hard job. Often ignored regular maintenance. Leave the long rod in place. Clean and grease the thrust pieces and the bearing. You do have a better bearing in the 4 speeds than us 5 speed guys get. It's not the bearing that needs any grease really the bearing gets lubed by the gear oil. The part that does get funky is the rod the throw out arm is pivoted on on the outside of the trans. That collects dirt and the grease dies out.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #4
caponerd
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My R69S developed a rattle that goes away when the clutch lever is pulled in last summer.
According to Dwayne Ausherman's website, this indicates a worn out input bearing in the transmission.
The cause aside from many thousands of miles of use, can be misalignment of the transmission and clutch.
I had my transmission out about 4 years ago to replace the clutch, and was unaware that /2 transmissions have to be "aligned" on reassembly.
So four years later, I get this rattle that it didn't have before.

I've got the transmission apart, and the bearing feels ok, but I'm this far into it, so I'm going to replace it anyway, and according to Ausherman, that rattle which goes away when the clutch is disengaged is a bad input bearing, so I'm hopeful the noise will be gone when I get it back together.

Also, according to Ausherman, from the /5 models onward, you don't need to "align" the transmission if you've had it out.

How to align a /2 transmission? Leave the four nuts that hold it on a little loose after you've got everything back together, and start the motor before you tighten them.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:55 PM   #5
Beezer Josh OP
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Well, that's both a relief and a little bit of a disappointment. I'm glad it won't cost me any money, but I'm a bit disappointed I don't get to dig into the gearbox or have a reason to invite disston over for some beer and a wrenching session...

Drive splines are worn and next on the list, so stay tuned. Then work begins on restoring the /3!
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:14 PM   #6
supershaft
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Do you mean the noise that it has always made when the clutch is out or a new noise when the clutch is out?
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:34 PM   #7
Wirespokes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezer Josh View Post
...I'm a bit disappointed I don't get to dig into the gearbox...
That's a can of worms (and expense) you should be glad you didn't get into. Dodged the bullet (actually, there was no bullet, just a dud) so breathe a sigh of relief and move on. If you really want to mess with transmissions, buy one and open it up. The first job may find you pulling it apart again a few times to improve the shimming.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:53 PM   #8
caponerd
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
Do you mean the noise that it has always made when the clutch is out or a new noise when the clutch is out?
Mine was a new noise. That's why my transmission is apart on my workbench right now.
Sounds like the op doesn't know for sure.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:35 PM   #9
Rob Farmer
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Is it a rattle or a "sushing" noise? If it's a rattle try lifting the tick over, if it stops then this is a fairly common thing. If it's a sushing sound then it could well be the input shaft bearing, just make a mental note of the sound and see if it gets worse over time.

I rebuilt the gearbox on one of mine a couple of years ago, fitted a new input shaft and complete clutch assembly while I was at it. It doesn't make a sound at tick over which was very disconcerting initially.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:41 AM   #10
disston
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It can have it's rewards like any of the other things we rebuild and maintain on our bikes but transmission rebuilding is not for everyone and the special tools needed add up to a few hundred dollars. (some take things to another level and make their own tools)

I looked at your profile Josh, Where are you?
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:33 AM   #11
Beezer Josh OP
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I've only had this bike for about 9 months, put almost 7,000 miles on it and ride it 60 miles to and from work almost every day, but couldn't tell you if it was a new noise or not. My idle is usually higher, and I heard the noise more as the idle got lower and the engine quieter.

I'll still have my chance of getting into a BMW transmission; the /3 tranny needs to come apart.

Disston-I'm in PG county off 301, about 30 miles from Silver Spring.

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Old 11-01-2013, 07:23 AM   #12
supershaft
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/3 trannies are two shaft and ours are three shaft setups. Basically the three shaft trannies are an half ass attempt at putting a primary gear on them.

It sounds like the noise you're hearing is normal but . . . . Have someone else listen to it?

It's just the four speeds that have front input shaft bearing issues. The five speed's front input shaft bearings are pretty much rock solid. Why a lot of people say that the four speeds are more robust than five speeds I can't figure. The same bearings plus the front input shaft bearing goes bad in them and the shift dog plate setup wears a lot more than the comparable setup in the five speeds. That and they don't shift nearly as well and that is saying something.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:25 AM   #13
disston
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I have most of the tools to do a 5 speed. Most of those will also do a 4 speed /5 but I don't have the shimming plate. My flange puller may fit a /3 and there is a rear cover puller I have that may fit but don't know. If you get any of your transmissions out you can contact me and come over. If the pullers fit I'll lend them to you and when you bring the tools back we can press the bearings on if you want. My garage is in a storage space and we can't pull the cover there but once the shafts are out we can put the bearings on. (I have to be sure there is absolutely no spilt oil at my storage place)

I think we talked before but I forgot where you are. So remind me when you have a whole transmission in your hands and I'l teach you how to turn it into smaller bits and pieces.

This all sounds like fun but I'm sure not for the faint of heart. It would be a good idea to give any transmission job to an expert but if you are like me you just have to do it yourself.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:00 AM   #14
Beezer Josh OP
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I think for now I'll stick with the noise and, now that I've noticed it, see if it gets louder.

So, does anyone have a good source of information online? Maybe a YouTube video I haven't discovered that details some of the process?
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:33 AM   #15
100RT
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Five speed rebuild.
http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/gearbox.html
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