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Old 09-27-2013, 04:04 AM   #1
Rockwell OP
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Copper Bits In Oil

We've stopped in Vienna at LukasM's place to visit and do a bunch of maintenance on the motorcycle.

I did an oil change and we noticed small copper bits in the oil. What could this be from and should we be overly concerned?


Cropped, 100% zoom, sharpened:
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:03 AM   #2
Katoom72
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Looks like a bearing starting to fail...

I hope i'm wrong tho... But copper in the oil useually means bearing failure.

Edit: generator could be a cause aswell...hope it's that instead of the bearing shell
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Katoom72 screwed with this post 09-27-2013 at 05:14 AM
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:38 AM   #3
charlie264
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Pull genny cover, see if a bolt has backed out.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:03 AM   #4
bikyto
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Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post
pull genny cover, see if a bolt has backed out.
+1
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by charlie264 View Post
Pull genny cover, see if a bolt has backed out.
+2

If a bolt is on its way out you will soon be very stranded.

Cant say for sure if laying it down is needed to not have to drain the oil, I laid it down when looking over the balance shaft seal.


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Old 09-27-2013, 06:23 AM   #6
keener
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I suspect the generstor as well.

No need to lay the bike down. Put it on center stand and lean it to the right and put a piece of plywood or something under the left leg of the stand.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #7
Rockwell OP
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I'll check the generator. I've never seen inside the generator, so I don't fully understand what the problem would be. If a bolt backs out, which part is copper. The windings?

I'm worried that it might be a bearing. I posted a few months ago (HERE) about some jerkiness I've been experiencing. Some suggested the twitchy throttle, but I know it isn't that since I had never experienced this kind of jerkiness before. I stopped at a ktm dealership while we were still in Canada, and the mechanic said that he'd bet his last beer that it was a loose link in my chain. He tugged on the chain at the rear sprocket and there was a bit of play.

I'm thinking that if there are bits of copper in the oil (which suggests a possible failed bearing), and I have been experiencing jerkiness, that it might very well be the bearing?
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell View Post
I'll check the generator. I've never seen inside the generator, so I don't fully understand what the problem would be. If a bolt backs out, which part is copper. The windings?

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by maugustyn View Post
Hey everyone. Assuming I am doing this correctly, I wanted to get back to all of you and let you know how things turned out. As you can see from the pics, not well...



Apparently, the flywheel/clutch starter bolts started to back out around 48,300 miles on the bike....noticed and put back in by a shop that replaced the torque limiter...shop to remain nameless...bike died at 49,900 miles...



The bike was not repairable nor could parts get in fast enough. As a result, she/aka the bike, stayed with MotoVirginia in Charllotesville for a week while I, sadly, rented a coffin.



MotoVirginia saw no locktite on any of the the bolts :-( Along with the stator, the rotor was shot as well.....



I am told that I am lucky that the bike/engine did not seize up on me. Big shout out to Dirk, Donnie and Widget at MotoVirginia in Charllotesville, VA. Very helpful. Very friendly. Very reasonably priced.

Also, a nameless shout out to the shop that did the torque limiter work around 48,300 miles. The day I finally made it back, they gave me a check that covered all of the repair bills, 2 nights of hotel while stuck in VA and the rental car up and back from VA. Almost $1800. They did the right thing and I am deeply grateful. The parts are going back to KTM to see if there may have been a factory problem.

So today's lesson, always locktite (with the red stuff) your flywheel/clutch starter bolts. Or make sure your mechanic does.


Note: The post I quoted mentions using Loctite. Be sure it is Loctite 648.

Quote:
From the H.O.W.

Freewheel bolts: There have been several cases of one or more of the bolts holding the freewheel assembly to the generator rotor loosening up, and in a few cases backing out far enough to make contact with the stator. This has resulted in damage to the stator, and in at least one case, the sheering off of one of the bolts. A Tech Bulletin was issued on October 16, 2004 that addresses this issue. Since it is such a critical item, it is suggested that ALL 950/990 owners check their bikes as instructed in the TB. Note: Be sure to use Locktite 648 as instructed. We have had failures caused by using lesser products in this instance.
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MortimerSickle screwed with this post 09-27-2013 at 11:02 AM
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:49 AM   #9
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Sorry to hear this! Got my fingers crossed for y'all!

Donnie
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Old 09-28-2013, 01:36 AM   #10
gefr
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As you can see in these photos

A new seal is needed when opening the generator cover, as it will probably get damaged.
Cheers.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:25 AM   #11
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A new seal is needed when opening the generator cover, as it will probably get damaged.
Cheers.
At least on my 2004 there NOT a paper gasket sealing the generator cover and I reused mine several times before changing it, not cause of leaks but to be safe.

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Old 09-28-2013, 02:40 AM   #12
MortimerSickle
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At least on my 2004 there NOT a paper gasket sealing the generator cover and I reused mine several times before changing it, not cause of leaks but to be safe.

/Johan
IIRC my early '04 had a metal gasket. I reused it without leakage.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #13
sstewart
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Stator

Been there,done that. Took about 7 oil changes to get it out. Good luck!
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:19 AM   #14
Rockwell OP
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Opened the cover to look at the stator. Everything appeared to be fine.

We were able to reuse the gasket as it stayed in tact when removing the cover.

We're going to do another oil change in a few days and try to filter the oil to see what's in it. Hope it's not a problem with a bearing. According to Lukas, everything in the engine sounds normal.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:49 AM   #15
charlie264
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That's good news. Were there bits on the screens.
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