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Old 10-16-2013, 08:51 PM   #136
garandman
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Definitely interesting comments. The poll would be different if you posted it in a GS forum, but the points made in your poll will also somewhat echo in the GS forum. Funny how so many ex owners troll around on the GS forum even years after owning one, and nearly as many never owners doing the same claiming they never will.
Do create one and post the link! I'd be astonished if former V-Strom riders even move the needle, as they are a relatively low volume product. But former Suzuki owners would be consistent with what I asked. No skin off my nose, my V-Strom is for sale.

I hate BMW's so much I belong to the biggest BMW club in North America! The "GS culture" is pretty silly, but the S1000RR is in a class by itself when it comes to liter sport bikes - BMW kicked the Big Four to the curb in one fell swoop. And when there is a new water-cooled R1200R with competitive power I'm definitely going to check it out.

I like to study how companies like BMW and HD "brand" their riders so I can figure out how to make customers identify with my business so they'll get tattoos and buy clothing!
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:26 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Do create one and post the link! I'd be astonished if former V-Strom riders even move the needle, as they are a relatively low volume product. But former Suzuki owners would be consistent with what I asked. No skin off my nose, my V-Strom is for sale.

I hate BMW's so much I belong to the biggest BMW club in North America! The "GS culture" is pretty silly, but the S1000RR is in a class by itself when it comes to liter sport bikes - BMW kicked the Big Four to the curb in one fell swoop. And when there is a new water-cooled R1200R with competitive power I'm definitely going to check it out.

I like to study how companies like BMW and HD "brand" their riders so I can figure out how to make customers identify with my business so they'll get tattoos and buy clothing!
No more low volume than BMW.

As for a poll, I don't care enough to bother.

Jim
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:03 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
When did I say price was the ONLY reason to buy a non-BMW? Typical response of a hater of BMW riders.

Jim
here....I guess you forgot.

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
You are obviously more thrilled with price while GS riders prefer the experience and quality of a GS. I can't count the number of Strom owners that eventually converted to BMW and wish they had sooner.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:27 AM   #139
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I left the credit union one afternoon. Jumped on the Tuono and some guy on a GS pulled up asked me how to get to Ellicott City. We were in Columbia maybe 12 miles away. Said he had forgotten his GPS. The best part was after stifling my initial response he wanted to argue when I gave him directions. Just like Harleys any dumbass with credit can buy one.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:42 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by waveydavey View Post
here....I guess you forgot.

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
You are obviously more thrilled with price while GS riders prefer the experience and quality of a GS. I can't count the number of Strom owners that eventually converted to BMW and wish they had sooner.
AGAIN, when did I say price was the ONLY consideration?

Jim
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:00 AM   #141
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Here are some of the comments from the BMW thread on Stromtrooper. From, you know, the haterz.

Quote:
Can I vote three times?
I have owned three, the last being a 2000 model R1150GS.

The Wee was the replacement for the GS, best thing I ever did.

Now I have money to spend on fuel and road trips instead of a bike sitting in the repair shop waiting for parts [or just the time for a mechanic to work on it because there is a big queue of BMW's ahead of mine, all waiting to be fixed
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Prior to getting my Vee, I had a brand new 1999 BMW R1100RA for 5 years. When I bought that bike, I thought, "This will be the last bike I will ever need!"

I found out later that this model is sort of the "step-child" of the BMW line as there are very few OEM OR aftermarket accessories available for it. Mine had the "surging" issue that BMW refused to acknowledge and left it up to the DEALERS to figure it out. Then some years later, BMW added dual-spark that seemed to help. That is NOT something a DEALER would add under warranty to fix it, right?

QUIRKY switchgear!!! WTF??

Routine maintenance wasn't too bad, but those frequent valve adjustments were a PITA! Mine had some oil leaks too.

When I sold the bike after 5 years and only about 15,000 miles, I had a hard time selling it (took about 6 months), and wound up practically giving it a way...losing nearly $10,000 in 5 years!! So much for high re-sale value.

On the plus side; great handling and ABS brakes, steady as a rock at it's top speed of only about 100mph with a windshield and side bags.

Conclusion; great fit and finish, sophisticated design and engineering, flawed in execution.
And just to show they weren't all bag jobs.

Quote:
I had an 1150RT which was a superb highway bike but had a flawed fully-linked brake system. It was impossible to use the rear brake independently. CHP refused to buy Beemers until the company modified the police bike brakes. BMW refused to modify civilian models. I got rid of mine for that reason, and because the bike was too heavy for me to maneuver into my enclosed trailer by myself. Then I bought an 04 1150RA. Great handling, great ABS brakes, huge alternator and superb workmanship. I put an Aeroflow touring fairing on it, and it was the best fork-mounted system I have ever seen. I sold it once because it sat a little short for me. I bought it back and sold it again and I still regret letting it go. The only repairs it ever needed were two new resister coils at about $100 apiece.

The BMW Telelever front suspension is way better than anything out there. After you get used to it, it's very hard to go back to a bike with brake dive. My Wee is a nice bike, but I wish I hadn't switched from the Beemer.

I don't do much off road, so my next bike will be an R1200RT. I can't say enough good things about that machine. BMW shaved about 75 pounds off it from the earlier RT, made the brakes partially linked, and added about 30hp. It's light and fliickable, solid as a rock on the slab and beautifully engineered and built. Yes, It's more than $20,000 new, but there are good used ones around for $10,000 with stability control, ABS and on board computer. They aren't likely to depreciate much from that point.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:40 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Here are some of the comments from the BMW thread on Stromtrooper. From, you know, the haterz.





And just to show they weren't all bag jobs.
My brother had a rectifier problem on his RS100. Turned out the wire to the rectifier goes through the generator indicator bulb, so that a burnt out bulb made the rectifier appear to be bad. Was it designed that way to save on wire? A new little bulb fixed the charging system.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #143
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The companies that do extended warranties know exactly what the numbers are. They base the price of the warranty on the number of claims and price per claim.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:36 PM   #144
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:07 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
I left the credit union one afternoon. Jumped on the Tuono and some guy on a GS pulled up asked me how to get to Ellicott City. We were in Columbia maybe 12 miles away. Said he had forgotten his GPS. The best part was after stifling my initial response he wanted to argue when I gave him directions. Just like Harleys any dumbass with credit can buy one.
I don't get it

He's a dumbass for not knowing where he was? If you're in a new area, 1 mile might as well be light years if you have NO idea where you are
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:00 AM   #146
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I don't get it

He's a dumbass for not knowing where he was? If you're in a new area, 1 mile might as well be light years if you have NO idea where you are
He knew enough to argue with me when I attempted to help him. And if you've a clear mind backtracking is easy. I believe in reliance on one's own mind until other methods become necessary. The first thing I do when moving to a new area is go riding for reconnaissance. And I always seem to find my way home alive.

The fact you don't get that one cannot find their way home in a large suburban area with more than adequate highway signage tells me you may need a GPS to survive as well.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #147
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In recent years most new bikes and cars are rather well built, there aren't many epic money pits as any lack of quality is rapidly spread through internet/tv. Certain owners of high end stuff expect perfection, so this shows on surveys. Would be more interesting to see how things changed through the last forty years for example.

On another side, my 56' Ural and both 80ies Alfa's really live up to their name, despite meticulous maintenance and restoration. They fail, often, alomost on every occasion. Who remembers the glorious days (late 70ies to late 80ies), the era of British Leyland, poorly built US cars, rotting Alfas, AMF Harleys etc,
Soviet and eastern bloc junk

Not really surprised by the Japanese reliabilty thing, thats their only advantage I can think of nowadays.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:42 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
He knew enough to argue with me when I attempted to help him. And if you've a clear mind backtracking is easy. I believe in reliance on one's own mind until other methods become necessary. The first thing I do when moving to a new area is go riding for reconnaissance. And I always seem to find my way home alive.

The fact you don't get that one cannot find their way home in a large suburban area with more than adequate highway signage tells me you may need a GPS to survive as well.
"The discovery of the GPS will bring forgetfulness to the learner's souls, because they will not use their memories. They will trust to the external characters and will not remember of themselves. You give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth. They will be heroes of many things, and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing." Socrates
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
He knew enough to argue with me when I attempted to help him. And if you've a clear mind backtracking is easy. I believe in reliance on one's own mind until other methods become necessary. The first thing I do when moving to a new area is go riding for reconnaissance. And I always seem to find my way home alive.

The fact you don't get that one cannot find their way home in a large suburban area with more than adequate highway signage tells me you may need a GPS to survive as well.
He was wrong to argue, yes. However, I've been in many cities where backtracking is near impossible. Ever driven through downtown Seattle? More than half of the streets are one way, and every block looks the same. Let me plop ya down there and see if you can find your way from point A to point B and back again. I have what I consider to be a pretty darn good sense of direction, and lived an hour North of Seattle for 20 years. I still get lost EVERY SINGLE time I go there.

Finding your way home alive isn't the same as finding your way home efficiently/quickly.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:53 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Der Pole View Post
In recent years most new bikes and cars are rather well built, there aren't many epic money pits as any lack of quality is rapidly spread through internet/tv. Certain owners of high end stuff expect perfection, so this shows on surveys. Would be more interesting to see how things changed through the last forty years for example.//
...I once contended that "The worst quality car you can buy today has higher quality than the best car you could buy ten years ago," and that turns out to be nearly true - it's like 11 or 12 years.

JD Power does initial quality and more-extended quality and owner satisfaction surveys. The big news this year is that GMC was #2, Chevrolet #5. Even the Europeans have two brands in the top 10, while three of the bottom five are Japanese, and Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Volvo have moved up out of the basement to average.

20 of the 33 brands are +/- 10% of the industry average. Pretty remarkable.
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