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Old 10-15-2013, 02:35 PM   #121
scootrboi
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Perhaps you care to elaborate? If your bike is "unreliable", it will break whether you do the work or the shop does the work (assuming "you" know how to wrench). I don't see how being your own mechanic plays into things at all...
I have been riding Heinkels since 1972, and have travelled about 110,000 miles on the 2 I have. When they first came out in the 50s and 60s they won a reputation for reliability. There is more maintenance than a modern bike, but the work is predictable and rather pleasant to do. The hardware never fails- that is, I have never had to go to much trouble to take anything apart. It is made to be worked on. When I was partially disassembling the left side of my wife's Honda scooter (it was 5 years old) I had to saw the nut off the crankshaft. Working on a 26 year old Heinkel in 1986 there was not a difficult fastener on the entire machine, which I tore down completely. Reliability takes different forms. There is more to a motorcycle than how well it starts without someone knowledgeable working on it. The motorcycles that win the reliability contest I suspect are the ones that go a long time before someone is faced with the disagreeable job of rebuilding something that was not made to be rebuilt. There are a lot of bikers that prefer to have a trained mechanic do all the work. They will choose the most reliable ones, the ones that require little attention. But when you know what you are doing, you can look for expected trouble, and fix the problems that occur on the road, and it feels like a completion of the motorcycle experience. In spite of their age and vintage, the Heinkels get regular use. The Honda CH125 just kills batteries because no one rides it.

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scootrboi screwed with this post 10-15-2013 at 04:44 PM
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:23 PM   #122
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Duh? You didn't know that...
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:01 PM   #123
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We must be doing something wrong, having had four, going on 5 (with one on order) BMWs in the family with nary a problem. Maybe we're just not riding them correctly. Then, I remembered there were two Harley's, one of which is still with us, that had no problems. Since none of these were garage queens, perhaps we are an outlier. For those of you who're accustomed to having transmission issues, get yourself one of those ghost-shifting Goldwings and be in the in-crowd.
I'm glad for you. I really am. That's part of the BMW enigma. If you get a good one (and I've had a few), it will go hundreds of thousands of miles and be a lifelong companion. If you get a bad one it will cost you multi-thousands of dollars every 30K miles. Their engiineering is top notch, but their assembly line QA is for shit.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:12 PM   #124
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I'm glad for you. I really am. That's part of the BMW enigma. If you get a good one (and I've had a few), it will go hundreds of thousands of miles and be a lifelong companion. If you get a bad one it will cost you multi-thousands of dollars every 30K miles. Their engiineering is top notch, but their assembly line QA is for shit.
I can mention some Japanese models that will cost you thousands of dollars to just get the suspension working half as good as a BMW and/or to fix drive train problems, switches and electrical problems, etc. You get bad ones with any brand. The shittiest QA I have ever seen over my 55+ years of riding didn't come from BMW (and the AMF HDs don't count as they were the high watermark of crap).
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:32 PM   #125
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I can mention some Japanese models that will cost you thousands of dollars to just get the suspension working half as good as a BMW and/or to fix drive train problems, switches and electrical problems, etc. You get bad ones with any brand. The shittiest QA I have ever seen over my 55+ years of riding didn't come from BMW (and the AMF HDs don't count as they were the high watermark of crap).
So we're not allowed to call the AMF Harleys pieces of shit, because they were such huge pieces of shit? Now THERE'S some logic for ya
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:42 PM   #126
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So we're not allowed to call the AMF Harleys pieces of shit, because they were such huge pieces of shit? Now THERE'S some logic for ya
Go ahead.... call em whatever you want.

We already know where you stand anyhow.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:44 PM   #127
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Go ahead.... call em whatever you want.

We already know where you stand anyhow.
Do you? Or are you surmising? Because I have a funny feeling it's the latter.
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:31 PM   #128
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So we're not allowed to call the AMF Harleys pieces of shit, because they were such huge pieces of shit? Now THERE'S some logic for ya
It would seem that the only thing holding you back from calling AMF Harleys whatever you want is you. For many of us with a little experience in that era, the idea of AMF shit is a fait accompli. YMMV.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:17 PM   #129
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I can mention some Japanese models that will cost you thousands of dollars to just get the suspension working half as good as a BMW and/or to fix drive train problems, switches and electrical problems, etc. You get bad ones with any brand. //
OK, I'll bite, name away!

The first GS I rode, I thought the shifter was clunky and the engine rough, but the shocks were awesome. Then I found out he'd replaced the OEM stiff with Ohlens. I bought a V-Strom and got a smooth engine and shifter and spent $1,700 on suspension upgrades - like the GS.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:37 PM   #130
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OK, I'll bite, name away!

The first GS I rode, I thought the shifter was clunky and the engine rough, but the shocks were awesome. Then I found out he'd replaced the OEM stiff with Ohlens. I bought a V-Strom and got a smooth engine and shifter and spent $1,700 on suspension upgrades - like the GS.
I can't speak for your or other's GS bikes but the three we've had (two remain, one is a GSW) haven't needed anything. We have a V-Strom in the family also but it doesn't get ridden much. As for the less-than stellar Japanese bikes, it should be apparent from the problems I described as they are well known issues and I've no desire to bash anything (except perhaps AMF Harley turds)
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #131
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OK, I'll bite, name away!

The first GS I rode, I thought the shifter was clunky and the engine rough, but the shocks were awesome. Then I found out he'd replaced the OEM stiff with Ohlens. I bought a V-Strom and got a smooth engine and shifter and spent $1,700 on suspension upgrades - like the GS.
You are obviously more thrilled with price, while GS riders prefer the experience and quality of a GS. I can't count the number of Strom owners that eventually converted to BMW and wish they had sooner.

Don't get me wrong, the strom is a fine bike at the price, but no amount of expensive upgrades will make it a GS! This might be fine for those who consider price the determiner of which bike they ride, and that is fine, but thank doG we have options!

Jim
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:00 PM   #132
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You are obviously more thrilled with price, while GS riders prefer the experience and quality of a GS. I can't count the number of Strom owners that eventually converted to BMW and wish they had sooner.

Don't get me wrong, the strom is a fine bike at the price, but no amount of expensive upgrades will make it a GS! This might be fine for those who consider price the determiner of which bike they ride, and that is fine, but thank doG we have options!

Jim
How curious! In a poll on Stromtrooper, 50% of owners (myself included) said they formerly owned a BMW. 100% of GS riders seem to think the only reason people don't buy one is that they can't afford it.

I haven't ridden a GS since 2009, I understand the clutch and shifting are much improved and the engine doesn't vibrate as much. I seriously considered the R1200R before buying the Tiger but the Triumph was a better bet for track days.

One BMW for which I am 100% enthusiastic is the S1000RR. I rented one for a California Superbike School course at NJMP and really wanted to buy one. The first day you were required to run it in Rain mode, which limits the power to "only" 148hp and limits throttle application at high lean angles. But on the second and third days you could run whatever mode you wanted. I was hitting 140 on the straight and backing off while the good guys were drifting by me at 150-160. (The Tiger maxes out at 131). I have osteoarthritis in my left knee which limits my range of motion in flexion so I could only ride it for even a track session by gobbling Ibuprofin. If they ever introduce a more-upright version I'll be first in line.

BTW there was a fellow there with a GS, in case you were wondering about the performance difference. Also had a chance to ride an F800ST in a track session, it was very pleasant and well-behaved and with the usual suspension upgrades would be a nice middleweight. I belong to a BMW club up here and they seem to be growing in popularity.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:05 PM   #133
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How curious! In a poll on Stromtrooper, 50% of owners (myself included) said they formerly owned a BMW. 100% of GS riders seem to think the only reason people don't buy one is that they can't afford it.

I haven't ridden a GS since 2009, I understand the clutch and shifting are much improved and the engine doesn't vibrate as much. I seriously considered the R1200R before buying the Tiger but the Triumph was a better bet for track days.

One BMW for which I am 100% enthusiastic is the S1000RR. I rented one for a California Superbike School course at NJMP. The first day you were required to run it in Rain mode, which limits the power to "only" 148hp and limits throttle application at high lean angles. But on the second and third days you could run whatever mode you wanted. I was hitting 140 on the straight and backing off while the good guys were drifting by me at 150-160. The Tiger maxes out at 131. I have osteoarthritis in my left knee which limits my range of motion in flexion so I could only ride it for even a track session by gobbling Ibuprofin. If they ever introduce a more-upright version I'll be first in line.

BTW there was a fellow there with a GS.
I never said they couldn't afford it, and never would! I am not a rich man at all.

That said, I would like to see that poll! I'm not buying it.

I'm also no BMW snob, as I have owned nearly every brand of bike but HD, and lust after a Road King, but can't afford it.

Jim
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:20 PM   #134
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I never said they couldn't afford it, and never would! I am not a rich man at all.

That said, I would like to see that poll! I'm not buying it.
I lied! 46.5% when the poll was closed.The comments will undoubtedly amuse you.

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I'm also no BMW snob
Of course not, a BMW snob would say something like:

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You are obviously more thrilled with price while GS riders prefer the experience and quality of a GS. I can't count the number of Strom owners that eventually converted to BMW and wish they had sooner.
Oh, wait...

Another GS owner who can't fathom any other reason to buy a V-Strom than price. "Experience" = emotional involvement, which was my original point: BMW and HD have been extraordinarily successful at creating this emotional attachment with their brands, leading to above-average gross profit margins.

BMW talks about experience, HD talks about lifestyle, Triumph talks about spirit, Yamaha "Revs your heart," and "You meet the nicest people on a Honda."
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garandman screwed with this post 10-16-2013 at 07:36 PM
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #135
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I lied! 46.5% when the poll was closed.The comments will undoubtedly amuse you.

Of course not, a BMW snob would say something like:

Oh, wait...

Another GS owner who can't fathom any other reason to buy a V-Strom than price.
Definitely interesting comments. The poll would be different if you posted it in a GS forum, but the points made in your poll will also somewhat echo in the GS forum. Funny how so many ex owners troll around on the GS forum even years after owning one, and nearly as many never owners doing the same claiming they never will.

The problem with BMW and HD is that they do what they do well, and have a large dedicated following that seems to make other brands owners want to bash on them

Sure we have issues, as all brands and bikes do, but for many of us the GS just fits. I gave up my BMW for a year of riding a Triumph Scrambler. It just never really fit me. Nice bike, but didn't do nearly anything as well as the GS. I almost got a Tiger recently, but couldn't find one, and all the complaints about the suspension and lack of dealer support for parts put me off.

When did I say price was the ONLY reason to buy a non-BMW? Typical response of a hater of BMW riders.

Jim
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