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Old 10-11-2013, 08:09 AM   #841
Twoupfront
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
It all boils down to the members of a society wanting to shift their burden of personal responsibility onto another. Eventually a "ME" society is the result where folks expect someone else to take care of them and protect them from harm. This is an illusion.

Others will realize this and take advantage of the fact that most are conditioned this way, knowing that they can get away with things that aren't considered acceptable simply because there aren't enough people acting as enforcers to stop them.

History is full of examples of this as civilizations rise, stabilize, and eventually fall. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

Someone once said, "An armed society is a polite society" and this is because if everyone has the power and inclination to act as an enforcer then those who would consider acting outside the bounds of the acceptable norms will be less likely to do so.

If societies could only reach that point of equilibrium and maintain that delicate balance point between lawlessness/anarchy and total dependence on the illusion of safety there would not be problems like this.

Unfortunately, the law of the jungle promotes the path of least resistance, and this ultimately means that comfort, and the illusions that come with shirking personal responsibility, will always take precedence over the effort required to be self-reliant, to be respectful and to act independently for the common good.
All well and good, except even if everone was armed, with the exact same weapons, and equally skilled at using them, that wouldn't stop people from banding together and thereby being able to single out victims. Not forgetting that we all have various limits to when we would use force, and some will always be on a power trip and so on.

I'm sorry, but the notion that an armed society is a polite society is simply naive at best.

Twoupfront screwed with this post 10-11-2013 at 08:17 AM
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:11 AM   #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
It all boils down to the members of a society wanting to shift their burden of personal responsibility onto another. Eventually a "ME" society is the result where folks expect someone else to take care of them and protect them from harm. This is an illusion.

Others will realize this and take advantage of the fact that most are conditioned this way, knowing that they can get away with things that aren't considered acceptable simply because there aren't enough people acting as enforcers to stop them.

History is full of examples of this as civilizations rise, stabilize, and eventually fall. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

Someone once said, "An armed society is a polite society" and this is because if everyone has the power and inclination to act as an enforcer then those who would consider acting outside the bounds of the acceptable norms will be less likely to do so.

If societies could only reach that point of equilibrium and maintain that delicate balance point between lawlessness/anarchy and total dependence on the illusion of safety there would not be problems like this.

Unfortunately, the law of the jungle promotes the path of least resistance, and this ultimately means that comfort, and the illusions that come with shirking personal responsibility, will always take precedence over the effort required to be self-reliant, to be respectful and to act independently for the common good.
The whole post is worth repeating. I agree 100%.

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Old 10-11-2013, 08:17 AM   #843
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Canada is pretty good evidence that fewer guns = less violent crime.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #844
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Canada is pretty good evidence that fewer guns = less violent crime.
And Texas, where I have friends and family, is a pretty good example, that more gun freedom equals less crime, as well as a stiffer judiciary system. TX doesn't slow down the death penalty, they fast track it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #845
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Aholes roaming city streets like they own them, are actually lobbying for all sorts of new and expensive little gadgets to be required by law on new bikes. Gps-positioning is well underway "to collect road tolls" (and when integrated into the ECU, won't be so easy to remove as some might think, when the ECU is programmed to cut ignition, unless it has position signal).. and some sort of remote shutdown options are also developed to deal with those, who flee cops trying to stop them.

Costs serious money, and will naturally have to be installed on every bike.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #846
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
Canada is pretty good evidence that fewer guns = less violent crime.
the rest of the world is a good example.....
but, in the end.. guns don't kill people, people kill people.
it's cultural here in the USA I think, everyone's bat-shit crazy
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:30 AM   #847
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And Texas, where I have friends and family, is a pretty good example, that more gun freedom equals less crime, as well as a stiffer judiciary system. TX doesn't slow down the death penalty, they fast track it.
Yes, the death penalty that doesn't work as a preventer of crime, but only as a means to have people with a 13th century mindset feel that "justice" has been served, regardless of the fact that sometimes, people actually are innocent of the crime they are in for.


And Texas does not in fact do well when it comes to violent crimes, not to mention accidental deaths and injuries because of guns.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:31 AM   #848
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//I'm sorry, but the notion that an armed society is a polite society is simply naive at best.
I note your profile has no location. That's not polite, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougZ73 View Post
And Texas, where I have friends and family, is a pretty good example, that more gun freedom equals less crime, as well as a stiffer judiciary system. TX doesn't slow down the death penalty, they fast track it.
Texas does not have a particularly low rate of violent crime.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #849
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The problem with our modern society in America is that we are such a litigious society, that no one takes responsibility for their actions, because it can't possibly be their fault...has to be someone else's fault.

Add to that over crowded jails and an ineffective corrective system. In this modern economy, three meals a day and a warm bed, is not a deterrent to most criminals.

Lastly...a good portion of our present day population, are just F'ed in the head. I live near Philly, and the most recent WTF story is of a POS beating and stomping the head of a blind man....he attacked him for no reason.

Sadly, police are only here to clean up the mess after stuff happens, and not do their intended action of deterring the crime, from happening in the first place.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:36 AM   #850
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I note your profile has no location. That's not polite, either.
LOL, how is that relevant?

My profile doesn't have my real name either. What's the point?
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:38 AM   #851
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it took 57 pages to turn into a gun debate....not bad... I expected it to start on page 3 or 4
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #852
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Btw, to get this back a bit: Even if Lien had had a gun, at what point would it have been wise to pull it out, assuming it was legal (somewhere else but NYC), and at which point would it be likely that your and your lonesome would be able to outgun the douches on bikes?
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #853
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LOL, how is that relevant?

My profile doesn't have my real name either. What's the point?

We are trying to see exactly where you are on the issues?

;)
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:43 AM   #854
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We are trying g to see exactly where you are on the issues?

;)
I'm also a redhead, but now balding, which is equally important as my present location or place of birth. In other words, read the arguments.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:44 AM   #855
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I'm also a redhead, but now balding, which is equally important as my present location or place of birth. In other words, read the arguments.
About redheads?
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