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Old 10-11-2013, 01:18 PM   #886
Dcc46
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Rarely to I agree with everything someone says, but this guy is right on.

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Dcc46 screwed with this post 10-11-2013 at 01:57 PM
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:18 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post

Interesting. So, you believe that writers of fiction are unable to make philosophical points?

Not at all.

Just that they're never held accountable for misnomers or fabrications.

Much like inmates...



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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post


And what the hell is your graph intended to show?

Its a very simple graph.

It shows guns per capita.

If you read all four sentences of my original post, you may understand what I'm getting at better.

I actually agree w/ your evaluation of Native vs. modern rehabilitation efforts.

And w/ your assessment of Japanese and Arab methods. (I prefer the former.)

And w/ your opinion of Mr. Lien's actions.

It is the idea of guns being essential to America's (dubious) societal success that I find silly.

Many other nations are way safer w/ out guns.

Your ideology seems suggests arming them to the teeth would increase their safety.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:27 PM   #888
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And you think that the simple bubble-gum robbers are mixed with murderers in jail?

Um, You Don't?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-minimum-laws/
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:39 PM   #889
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You guys should take into account that once shooting starts, everyone leaves. Everyone but a platoon of Marines with an objective is going to go somewhere else, and even Marines are going to take cover. Do you really think that if Lien, once trapped by hooligans bashing his windows, had started shooting guys...that these hypothetical armed other-hooligans would have hunkered down into cover and engaged in a firefight? PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO GET SHOT. The very actions of of the hooligans illuminates their nature and what would occur if someone started shooting at them. They are not honorable, courageous men. They are a pack of cowards that only draw a semblance of strength from superior numbers. They would have scattered like rats at the first POP.

I personally am of the belief that deployment of a firearm is an absolute last line of defense. Like a gang pulling me out of my stuck Range Rover with evil intentions.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:43 PM   #890
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As a side note, I don't think it's fair to compare the cultural mixing pot of the United States to all the other virtually culturally-homologous 1st world nations that don't own guns. We have black gangs that fight latino gangs that fight white gangs that fight mixed gangs here. Some places where guns are illegal, here, are far more dangerous than another cultural mixing pot, like say, Brazil.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:55 PM   #891
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Originally Posted by DOGSROOT View Post
Your ideology seems suggests arming them to the teeth would increase their safety.
.
.
.
The problem I have with the graph is that it doesn't represent crime, only gun ownership. There is nothing there to draw a conclusion to the relationship between the two.

My ideology is that a responsible person should not be prevented from using whatever force is necessary to defend themselves from another wanting to relieve them of life, liberty or property in the commission of a crime.

However, ownership alone does not make one proficient whether it be guns or motorcycles. Being willing and able to use a tool responsibly is as important as having the right to do so.

Despite the examples of the people (thugs) this thread is about, I believe that most people can embrace the concept of the preservation of rights. I've owned guns since I was a child, and have never felt compelled to carry one. Yet. Should I ever feel it would be resourceful for me to do so I like living in a place where that right is written into the founding document for the land.

Otherwise, I am armed with cleverness. I have been successful at observing my environment and extracting myself from situations without having to resort to force. When I'm sleeping I'm not so clever and keep a firearm within reach. This is choice.

In no way should this be construed that I feel placing arms of any sort into the hands of someone who doesn't want that would be at all productive or safe.

If that person who chooses to live without arming themselves respects others right to do so, all is well.

If Mr. Lien were the sort who abhors guns and wouldn't have been proficient with one, then had he had one at hand it might have been a bad thing.

For anyone to put themselves in that place they will have to adopt his view of the world as well, rather than carry theirs into the RR he was driving. Who knows what that view is other than himself?

Those proposing a scenario with him armed are presuming he thinks the way they do, has their proficiency, experience, etc. and this might not be the case at all, for him.

So, allowing responsible people to arm themselves, to their teeth if they so desire, will make the world safer for them and for those who choose not to.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:04 PM   #892
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Thphon you absolutely made my day with that video! That guy was spot on!
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #893
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
The problem I have with the graph is that it doesn't represent crime, only gun ownership. There is nothing there to draw a conclusion to the relationship between the two.
The graph represents gun ownership to counter the argument that "An armed society is a polite society", he implied that the top three countries in per capita gun ownership are not polite societies.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:18 PM   #894
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Thphon you absolutely made my day with that video! That guy was spot on!
Unfortunately he didn't have the story quite straight, but the general intent is still accurate.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:24 PM   #895
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Unfortunately he didn't have the story quite straight, but the general intent is still accurate.
Yeah he had the riders confused, but he clears that up here lol!

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Old 10-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #896
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Yeah he had the riders confused, but he clears that up here lol!

Nice , I hadn't seen part 2
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #897
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The graph represents gun ownership to counter the argument that "An armed society is a polite society", he implied that the top three countries in per capita gun ownership are not polite societies.
I must have missed the graph of the countries arranged by their politeness, for comparison.

How do you plan to measure "national politeness" exactly?

Once a method to measure politeness by nation is applied, we can compare it to the gun ownership graph and look for a correlation.

Oh, we're supposed to go off half-cocked by implying half the information?

Sorry, I must have missed the cue to follow the herd with you on this.

It would be foolish for anyone to paint any nation's "politeness" based only upon personal experience in traffic, particularly in metropolitan areas, even worse if only random incidents like this one are the basis of measurement. What's say we take it to the limit and base it on something we saw on the internet and the feelings this generated?

Sure. I can see the big picture that graph represents now. Thanks for clearing it up.

(here in the sticks I think a very polite society is exemplified overall. YMMV)
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #898
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I was following this debate with huge interest, till it started to become yet another gun debate. Isn't there any place to outsorce this?
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:12 PM   #899
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Sure. I can see the big picture that graph represents now. Thanks for clearing it up.

(here in the sticks I think a very polite society is exemplified overall. YMMV)
I was just pointing out why that guy put that graph up there as you seemed to have missed the point. Not saying I agree.

A lot of people in Idaho own guns, Idahoans are generally pretty polite, more so than in bigger cities I have been in where gun ownership is not as high. I doubt that has anything to do with the number of gun owners though.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:30 PM   #900
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I was just pointing out why that guy put that graph up there as you seemed to have missed the point. Not saying I agree.

A lot of people in Idaho own guns, Idahoans are generally pretty polite, more so than in bigger cities I have been in where gun ownership is not as high. I doubt that has anything to do with the number of gun owners though.
Oh. Well then,



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