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Old 10-13-2013, 09:08 PM   #976
joexr
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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
Um, no it wasn't. It was a bunch of insults, and you SAYING he was wrong. There's a stunning lack of facts to support your allegations.

I dunno why you are calling me names, and being insulting to me. Instead of TELLING me how well reasoned you are, maybe you could spend a moment to ask yourself why several of us don't understand what you THINK you are saying.

Because when *I* read your messages what I see are: "I told you I am smarter than you and since I said it I'm right and you are an idiot because you can't accept the fact that I've been right several times because I said so; IDIOT!"
That sums it up pretty well.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:38 PM   #977
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If you continue to argue with idiots and dimwits, what does that say about your intelligence?
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:30 AM   #978
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Go to jomamma if you aspire to be a troll.



Wait...are you really giving lesson about trolling? You? The troll King? Come on...
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:16 AM   #979
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Now, joyful? That's me. There's no honor in purposely terrorizing a non-warring family. Screw him. He brought it on himself...habitually. I hope the Lien family's insurance company goes after his ass for scuffing the underside of their Range Rover, then nails all his buddies for the other damage and the emotional distress. Maybe other thug mobs will take a lesson from this, and decide on a more-civilized lifestyle...or not. The point being that peaceful citizens shouldn't be the ones living in fear.
I basically agree, that the thugs and their mob mentality is what caused all this. But for me, finding any joy in the fact that somebody is now critically injured, is in a word tasteless. Maybe, IF this will make some other thugs think twice, then that is a positive, but otherwise there really are very few positives to be found from this case.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:44 AM   #980
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Originally Posted by Twoupfront View Post

Unless posts have been deleted, you will find that I responded to the notion that Lien should have had and used a gun. And you talk about me twisting comments? You must be kidding.
Taildragger,

You didn't read before you responded, did you? I kid you not.

Your denial of being "one of the idiots", suggests you think there was more than one. I think you were second in the injection with your reply to the comment "an armed society is a polite society" with the comment "if everyone was armed", post 841. There is nothing there that implies, "law abiding". Your assertion now that is what you meant will not stand scrutiny. The record is clear, nothing has been deleted. Read it from 839 forward. Prior to this there may have been casual mention of firearms, but no debate. If I am wrong please show me.

You make similar mention of "everyone having guns" in posts 860, 864, 865, and 869, none of which implies "law abiding". I think that substantiates my assertion that you based your argument on flawed premise and that you repeated said flawed premise over and over again.


If you are intent on disputing my word, please use the record, not more rhetoric.

You said this in post 852:
.............................
"Btw, to get this back a bit: Even if Lien had had a gun, at what point would it have been wise to pull it out, assuming it was legal (somewhere else but NYC), and at which point would it be likely that your and your lonesome would be able to outgun the douches on bikes?"
.............................

I did not find a prior mention of Lien with gun in several pages prior to your mention. Until you can show me the post you were responding to, I have to believe you were not responding, you were injecting.

I attempted to diffuse the Lien argument in post 856, in an edit that was timed at the same time as you quoting my post in # 860 just before the edit. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, maybe the argument wouldn't have escalated if you had seen that edit before things got more out of hand. I think you repeated that question twice more, first in #860 and again in #864, another example that my assertion that you said the same things over and over again, is correct.

The only simple concept in the gun debate is The Second Amendment. That has been debated for at least half a century. If you think we should fall in line with your "simple concept" of what you believe is The Answer, your mind is simpler than your concept.

If you can't go back and read and understand your own comments, I surely can't expect you to understand mine, so I see no real need to continue this discussion if you continue with denial.

..
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:46 AM   #981
GlennR
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This thread has become silly.

You guys need to get out for a ride.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:00 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
This thread has become silly.

You guys need to get out for a ride.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:18 AM   #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72
Well the guy is most likely paralyzed for the rest of his life. Even if he is found guilty, and had it coming for him every possible way, I still don´t think his fate is something to be joyful of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
I don't know that Ricochet was actually joyful. I think he just thought it was funny that somebody would glorify the thug lifestyle when it can often wind up with you dead or being fed. The chorus was hilarious.....
...... Maybe other thug mobs will take a lesson from this, and decide on a more-civilized lifestyle...or not. The point being that peaceful citizens shouldn't be the ones living in fear.
Kommando, thanks for the back-up!

Come on, that "song" was funny! Somebody came out with that, and I found it amusing. Sometimes you (read: I) just have to laugh.

Listen, I've been kind of obsessed with this. Not sure why, but this has really captured me. Maybe I'm just fascinated with just how bad things can be these days, and with everyone's take, spin, and commentary on this "incident". People and society fascinate me, I find people and the things they say and do an endless source of wonder.

Pretty sure we all agree there is absolutely nothing funny about this thing- the thug-like attitudes, the mob actions, the family being terrorized, the dad beaten. I would, in no way, wish ill will upon anyone... Not even anyone involved in this saga- as a "normal" matter of course. Guys doing what I consider to be dumb ass shit on bikes isn't too far out of the realm. A couple HUNDRED men on bikes running rampant & lawless thru any city IS just a wee bit out of the realm of normalcy, yes?

In today's world, (universally speaking) few people EVER take or want to take responsibility for their actions. People think that society has somehow deprived them, that they are OWED. I was raised to take responsibility for my own actions; to understand how my actions affect others, and to stand up for things I did or have done- wrong, or right, no matter what.
I absolutely feel without doubt or question, that Mr "Meezee's" own actions directly resulted in his present situation. Would I have wished this on him? No. Do I feel sorry for him? Oh hell no. Did he "cause" himself to end up in the hospital? Let's say his actions had their own result. Maybe -IF he comes thru the coma- he'll have some time to think about his actions.... About how glorious it is to be a "thug" or "gangsta". MAYBE he'll redeem himself somewhat by reaching out to young people in his neighborhood, maybe he'll help teach others how NOT to act? In any case, I firmly feel he needs to accept responsibility for his own actions, to understand that any choice he made was his own, that now it is up to him alone to face up to, and handle any and all forthcoming ramifications.

I personally get so sick of this [rather pervasive] aspect of U.S. society, this glorification of the gangsta/thug persona. From the pro sports figures, to cage fighting, to musical talent, and other members of the entertainment community/industry, people idolize these assholes! These knuckleheads are the ones our children look up to! They're the "heroes"!

These guys on these bikes and ATVs were all MEN. Not kids, trying to figure out who they are and where they fit in this world, but full grown men. Not kids tagging along with big brother, but men in their late 20s and 30s. They knowingly went out, many of them without licenses, vehicle registrations, without insurance, to run roughshod over whomever happened to be in their way. These MEN chose their own actions, agreed to gather and run crazy all over NYC, knowing the police couldn't and wouldn't do much of anything to really stop them.

Now that they've pretty firmly established themselves as "thugs", lawless gangstas, and tough guys... I find it somewhat awkward to hear them crying about their innocence, about "their pain". Not to mention at least a little ironic. And sickening.

So, while this is NOT funny, it IS completely tragic- on so many levels. I believe with all my heart that dude got pretty much exactly what was coming to him, that his OWN actions resulted in his hospitalization, and that any other members of this mob got hurt, or get arrested, or go to jail absolutely deserve it.

Now. I have ZERO faith in the so-called "justice system" in the U.S.- I harbor no illusion that any of these guys will really do any "time" over this- the prisons are all overflowing with guys who are doing federally mandated time for pot or crack, or biker crank! The REAL thugs and criminals- the violent and career criminals- all WALK!

Something happened that can never be reversed on Sept 29. As a result- several people will have to deal with the results- some for a short time, some for a long time.

If we compare the short term, chump change, cheap gratification that society at large may glean from knowing these assholes are hurt or in jail,
to the long term anguish that Mr Lien and his family- think of the 2 year old!- will have to deal with now, as a direct result of whatever led to the final actions (IE: beat down).....

It is my opinion that one does not equal the other.




Cheers.

ricochetrider screwed with this post 10-14-2013 at 10:44 AM
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:58 AM   #984
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Originally Posted by Twoupfront View Post
Wow, talk about being dishonest. I was not the one who dragged guns into this debate as a possible solution. You guys were. That is not a strawman.

It was a straight forward question, you ought to be able to answer, and just because you were shown to be wrong, just means that guns would not be a solution in this instance.

LOL, once again with double standards.
You are arguing with too many people and generalizing about people with whom you disagree. You chose to attack me, set up a straw man argument and misrepresent my position. I answered a question respectfully and you have proven unworthy of that respect.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:06 AM   #985
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You are arguing with too many people and generalizing about people with whom you disagree. You chose to attack me, set up a straw man argument and misrepresent my position. I answered a question respectfully and you have proven unworthy of that respect.
there goes another one
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:13 AM   #986
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NEWS FLASH

NO Guns were used, displayed, fired, or in any other way involved with these crimes in a way that had any impact on the situation. If an individual was carrying, it didn't change anytyhing. The knife (or other object) used to slash the tire played a much more important role.

If there is anyone here who feels that Mr. Lien was in the wrong and that the people riding motorcycles and ATVs aren't getting a fair shake, plaese speak up so we can discuss that. Otherwise, we are just finding reasons to argue with each other which have nothing to do with the incident.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #987
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Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
NEWS FLASH

NO Guns were used, displayed, fired, or in any other way involved with these crimes in a way that had any impact on the situation. If an individual was carrying, it didn't change anytyhing. The knife (or other object) used to slash the tire played a much more important role.

If there is anyone here who feels that Mr. Lien was in the wrong and that the people riding motorcycles and ATVs aren't getting a fair shake, plaese speak up so we can discuss that. Otherwise, we are just finding reasons to argue with each other which have nothing to do with the incident.
Good points.

I agree ending the gun talk is a good idea...as it went no where.

Overall, I think with any incident, root cause analysis can be used.

If we look at the root cause of this whole series of events, it is pretty easy to see that the motorcycle "gang" and their actions, were the root cause.

Had they not disrupted traffic, ignored common traffic laws, not tried to to halt moving traffic on a highway( thinking they owned it), none of the other chain of events would have happened. Sadly, their actions show they are ignorant clowns, and as such, probably do not have the mental capacity to accept themselves as the responsible parties, and instead, want to now play the victims. It is a sad statement about our current society.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:39 PM   #988
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But, shouldn't they all still get a trophy?

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:55 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
NEWS FLASH

NO Guns were used, displayed, fired, or in any other way involved with these crimes in a way that had any impact on the situation. If an individual was carrying, it didn't change anytyhing. The knife (or other object) used to slash the tire played a much more important role.

If there is anyone here who feels that Mr. Lien was in the wrong and that the people riding motorcycles and ATVs aren't getting a fair shake, plaese speak up so we can discuss that. Otherwise, we are just finding reasons to argue with each other which have nothing to do with the incident.
Bravo, well said But please don't say anything about knives yet until we know it was a knife that actually punctured/slashed his tires, you never know who's reading this and they may want to ban/register knives too!!!
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #990
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But, shouldn't they all still get a trophy?

A 0.762 cm trophy??
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