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Old 10-10-2013, 07:57 AM   #61
ZEmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig_Sour View Post
That's for you and your side-arm to decide. I'd take the physical confrontation any day especially if I have a camera rolling and a sidearm handy.
how does that work ?

you going to the ground in a fisticuffs and your sidearm is just nicley hanging out in your holster ?

then if it gets ugly like He pulls out a knife or worse where a camera won't do you any good when your dead you will implement your sidearm ?


oh wait the gun now pointing at your head is your sidearm

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Old 10-10-2013, 08:41 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by ZEmann View Post
how does that work ?

you going to the ground in a fisticuffs and your sidearm is just nicley hanging out in your holster ?

then if it gets ugly like He pulls out a knife or worse where a camera won't do you any good when your dead you will implement your sidearm ?


oh wait the gun now pointing at your head is your sidearm


I agree the whole sidearm thing only works if the OP knew and saw the guy stop and get out but got off the bike and keep him at a safe distance giving warnings. I'm betting having the helmet off and my cellphone out calling 911 would of had that guy get back in his vehicle and take off...as it was mentioned to be driving that bad he was high or drunk and probably would not of wanted to stick around.

At the end of the day do these internet tough guys really want to shoot someone? Spend countless hours in court (costing them money and time) when the family sues them and what have you. Even if the family didn't sue you still going to have your gun taken, still be spending countless $$$$$ on this and filing papers and hiring a lawyer to make sure your protected.

So lets see, having a confrontation is going to cost you $$$$$. Fleeing is going to cost you what!!!

Only two things I think the OP did wrong was Stop and had headphones on where he had no clue the guy pulled up and stopped thus not knowing what was going on around him. One negative to wearing headphones and listening to music.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Swashbuckler View Post
........As I'm looking down at my phone I get a knock on my helmet.......
Technically, by the letter of the law in CO, this is assault (misdemeanor). I know his intent was not to harm you with that particular action, but uninvited intentional physical contact is assault under Colorado law. Only mentioning this so no one here crosses that line without knowing

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........with my earphones in listening to music.......
Be careful about this in CO. While the laws are complicated, Colorado is one of four states where it is illegal to wear earbuds or earphones while driving. I'm not saying don't do it (It is not illegal to wear ear PLUGS on a motorcycle, and I personally see very little difference if your music volume is reasonable), and I do it all the time. I would be careful about what you say while interacting with law enforcement
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:58 AM   #64
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I agree the whole sidearm thing only works if the OP knew and saw the guy stop and get out but got off the bike and keep him at a safe distance giving warnings.
I think George Zimmerman might disagree.

But I agree, avoiding conflict is the smart move. Look at how GZ's life has been ruined, even though he was found innocent.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:39 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ZEmann View Post
you are describing 2 different courses of action as one IMHO

you can't "avoid" a possible bad situation by confronting an enraged individual and trying to talking civil IMHO
you can count on that actually not working most times

as you likely wouldn't even get he words "I,m" out of your mouth before your "out " and lying on the ground

it's fight or flight in my book if you try anything in between it will still end up in a fight or flight situation
Most road-ragers aren't going to get into a physical confrontation just like most people walking down the street, your average joe. Jail-time, court costs, these are things most people want to avoid and judges don't take lightly to road ragers especially if they get physical beyond "pushing matches". I've been in these situations and I've called the rager's bluffs, if you don't play into their game they can't play their game but they can go to jail while you don't, simple as that (or you can go to jail just as quick as them because you're just as guilty as them because you played into their game). I carry a side-arm because it's my right to do so not because I'm some "internet tough guy". I've never had to use and don't want to ever use it but I have it for the rare crazy who would get into a physical confrontation because they are out there but they are definitely the exception to rule. You make it sound like every person who's capable of road-rage is one move from fisticuffs and that's just plain naive especially when so many of these incidents occur in broad daylight among dozens of witnesses including the police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEmann View Post
how does that work ?

you going to the ground in a fisticuffs and your sidearm is just nicley hanging out in your holster ?

then if it gets ugly like He pulls out a knife or worse where a camera won't do you any good when your dead you will implement your sidearm ?


oh wait the gun now pointing at your head is your sidearm

Was there mention of internet tough guy earlier?You pretend like there's no such thing as successful self-defense, how empowering! You also half-imply that I'm making out a side-arm to be an end-all solution, that it fixes all one's problems in the realm of physical confrontation. It's just a tool that when used properly can get a task done, and adults who own these tools understand that. Some even take classes for it. Dozens of news stories every week demonstrate that armed citizens can and do stop crime of all flavors but they're always imperfect situations where the citizen has to choose life and safety over potential negative legal ramifications. Guns don't have to be fired to diffuse a situation. It seems what you're trying to get at is that you believe flight would be the more appropriate response to all ragers but you can't seem to get that out because you're too busy trying to show how guns can be mishandled (what a revelation!).

Good for you, you want to flee. Just don't complain if you get in a crash and the rager disappears...then you're in court explaining why you were going 100 MPH when you crashed into an unrelated vehicle killing the driver and there's absolutely no evidence to prove or even support that you were fleeing from a rager...that is, if you were even to survive that crash. Humans are dangerous no doubt, but when you're on a motorcycle the most dangerous one is he who connects the seat to the handlebars...now throw in all that adrenaline from the flight-or-fight response and you're better off on the ground in my opinion unless you have absolutely no hope of surviving the physical confrontation...did you piss of a drug runner? OK that's a different story, but most ragers are just pissed-off commuters having a really bad day. Sure they might have a lot of bad days but very, very few are the gangbangers you're essentially describing. Maybe your experience is driving through ghettos? Then you yourself are an exception to the experiences of the average joe on this forum.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #66
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no internet tough guy BS here just real life advice

My points were

avoid the situation altogether

don't get in a tussle if you have a side arm it won't end well no matter what happens after your rolling around on the ground a side arm was not intended to deescalate a wrestling / boxing match

and We deal with road rage often in AZ because people are hot and pissed off

don't get caught up in it if you can help it
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:25 PM   #67
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Having spent 24 years on the East Coast, between DC, Philly and NYC, and then 25 in CO, I have come to believe that Colorado road ragers are mor eprolific than other places.

I've had so many confrontations (in CO) and pure asshats f**king with me while riding. That just hasn't happened in any other location. I go to the Bay Area, and I'm like "Man, the traffic sucks, but people are just so reasonable here!"

Was Colorado much more mellow in 1986, or do I just remember it that way?

Just musing while buzzed on empanadas and Carmenere, in Valparaiso, Chile, waiting for my KLR to clear customs...
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by bouldergeek View Post
I have come to believe that Colorado road ragers are more prolific than other places.

Was Colorado much more mellow in 1986, or do I just remember it that way?
I think it's just Denver metro/north front range really. The demographics have changed up there in recent years and you can see the rage simmering just below the surface of way too many people driving around. I lived up there in the mid 90's and it wasn't like that. I rarely see crazed phycos on the roads in my area code, but in the 303 it's kind of nutty and getting worse all the time....imho.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:03 PM   #69
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It's like mosquitos vs cockroaches. Mosquitos are the most deadly animals in the world - I don't think a cockroach can do any one any harm. Yet for some strange reason many people I know are afraid of roaches but I've never met anyone afraid of mosquitos.
Acknowledging the ragers feelings and talking to him civilly is a great idea.
And the odds of him punching you before you can say I'm sorry are probably far less than you crashing.
And the repercussions of you crashing are probably far more serious than getting punched.
And it's not just you - (I'm not referring to the op - just in general) if you were an amazing rider toying with him confident be couldn't catch you be could easily kill someone else trying to catch you.

And if you are not able to make a rationale descion because your government will punish the best course of action its time for a new government!


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Old 10-14-2013, 04:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bouldergeek View Post
I have come to believe that Colorado road ragers are mor eprolific than other places.

I've had so many confrontations (in CO) and pure asshats f**king with me while riding. That just hasn't happened in any other location. I go to the Bay Area, and I'm like "Man, the traffic sucks, but people are just so reasonable here!"
When I lived in Denver and worked as a home care nurse I used my Wee Strom to visit patients. I've also done this in 4 or 5 other large cities.
In my personal experience, Denver drivers are unquestionably the most aggressive or outright threatening that I've encountered. Keep in mind that I was dressed in business clothing and going about my business, not blasting around looking for trouble.
I also just returned from a long trip that included the midwest. After a week there I suddenly realized that no one had given me the finger during that week. It was refreshing.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:36 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
I think it's just Denver metro/north front range really. The demographics have changed up there in recent years and you can see the rage simmering just below the surface of way too many people driving around. I lived up there in the mid 90's and it wasn't like that. I rarely see crazed phycos on the roads in my area code, but in the 303 it's kind of nutty and getting worse all the time....imho.
Yep I got to say even the back dirt roads right on the Front Range just since I have lived here seems to have more hot heads not liking you wanting to get around them out of their dust clouds. They rather you follow them at 10mph all the way up for 20 miles and 200 feet back...LOL Don't get near them or it freaks them out (I been yelled at for tail gating a bunch of times...um buddy I'm two car lengths back get over it). Or how about pull over and just let me by...that would be a novel idea and I'll be gone. Or let me stay back there and listen to be rev my engine...whatever the dust don't hurt me I'm a dirt rider anyways...LOL
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:26 PM   #72
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To those who say they have a lot of confrontations with other drivers, what is the common denominator in each of those situations?
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:45 PM   #73
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To those who say they have a lot of confrontations with other drivers, what is the common denominator in each of those situations?
I would guess someone ticked them off and they take it out on the next poor sole treating them like they did something wrong.

Anytime while I was younger riding like an ass I was past traffic so quick no one knew I was coming and no issues. Now did that action ruffle feathers for the next guy!!! Maybe, who knows. By riding like an ass I should mention I mean *gasp* speeding.

There is no way to have a reasonable conversation with these people.

I bet though if you were too talk to them and dug down they probably once owned a motorcycle or a dirt bike or had a family member that did.

Other times it's the make of bike, on a sport bike you get more hate...on a cruiser they are more likely to idolize you or think your a Hell's Angles type and stay away from you.

Also the thought they have of "how dare you get somewhere faster then me"...LOL mentality probably plays a role. Plus the false sense of being safe in a large Truck or SUV.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:55 PM   #74
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Yep I got to say even the back dirt roads right on the Front Range just since I have lived here seems to have more hot heads not liking you wanting to get around them out of their dust clouds. They rather you follow them at 10mph all the way up for 20 miles and 200 feet back...LOL Don't get near them or it freaks them out (I been yelled at for tail gating a bunch of times...um buddy I'm two car lengths back get over it). Or how about pull over and just let me by...that would be a novel idea and I'll be gone. Or let me stay back there and listen to be rev my engine...whatever the dust don't hurt me I'm a dirt rider anyways...LOL
I used to have a friend who ran a MTB tour company. He would shuttle people up into the mountains in a van so they'd be able to ride downhill for hours. He told me that the faster vehicle has the right of way on national forest roads. No idea if it's true, but he would tailgate people big time and pass them without mercy in that big old shuttle van.

Maybe we print up some pamphlets and throw them at people as we pass them?
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:34 PM   #75
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To those who say they have a lot of confrontations with other drivers, what is the common denominator in each of those situations?
Envy.
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