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Old 10-07-2013, 08:55 AM   #16
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
Try not to introduce vapor lock that in-tank pumps and filters eliminated.

Fred
Hmmmmmmmmmm I'd not thought of that factor ...
I wonder how much extra risk having an external filter presents in terms of vapor lock?

Maybe the the smaller profile unit tucked under the seat would be better than a large can strapped to the frame?
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:16 AM   #17
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Keep it away from the exhaust system, and vapour lock won't be a problem. Somewhere under the seat should work just fine.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
It took more than a dozen fill, shake, wipe and blow before the resistance to flow dropped. The amount of fine dirt that came out was staggering.
Did it seem to clean out ok Snowy, you were able to blow through it when you finished flushing it?
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:27 AM   #19
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so why no plastic case..? ................


.

ok, so i've answered my own question...

done a 'little' research, and from all the technichal detail ive read from filter manufacturers, it seems..

"EFI fuel filters are always housed in metal canisters"...

and..

"Never use Nylon-bodied filters on EFI systems as they will fail and may cause fire"....

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Old 10-08-2013, 02:24 AM   #20
Snowy
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Did it seem to clean out ok Snowy, you were able to blow through it when you finished flushing it?
Yeah, but there is still a fair resistance to flow. It is a fine filter, so I expect some, but initially I was seriously worried by how hard it was to blow through.

Rang the BMW dealer today, and the fuel pump is a separate item, as is the sender unit, as is the pre filter (strainer). But the filter is only available as part of a $902 assembly, according to the parts guy. There is no separate part number.

Si I'm looking at a smaller car unit tomorrow. I already have a great CAV screw on FI filter with water separator, but it's huge. So I'm hunting for something smaller.

I was looking at it this morning and thinking I can cut an alloy plate that covers the hole in the top of the tank, and weld an alloy fuel pipe in that reaches the bottom of the tank. Then mount an external pump and filter on the top of that lid. Do away with the existing unit, and figure out how to mount the fuel level sender.

To my way of thinking, having it made from a readily available aftermarket pump and filter would be the simplest most robust design looking at failures in the future.

The other option is to just put a screwdriver through the existing filter element internally, and just fit a small in line external filter. I'll have a better idea tomorrow.

I got sidetracked today with tyre fitment and some MRI time for the busted back. Tomorrow I'll focus.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:40 AM   #21
FredRydr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
Keep it away from the exhaust system, and vapour lock won't be a problem. Somewhere under the seat should work just fine.
Vapor lock of highly volatile liquids begins at high summer ambient temperatures, not just heat generated from exhaust, engine or other such sources. Shade-tree redesigns intended to address one issue can have unintended consequences.

If you can keep a 6-pack of beer cold during your entire journey, you'll have a cool liquid to pour over the modified fuel and filter lines when needed while crossing the Moab.

Fred

FredRydr screwed with this post 10-08-2013 at 06:46 AM
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:36 PM   #22
Bill the Bong
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On my KTM 690 I have an external metal filter of an 800cc Polaris Quad. Interestingly enough, the standard in-tank filer is actually plastic, and it is on the pressurised side of the fuel pump. Pressures are similar as for the BMW.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:47 AM   #23
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Have you a part number for the Polaris Filter ?
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #24
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OEM-Polari...item19c9303411
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:04 PM   #25
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Question Noob question.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Power View Post
.....My intent is to replace, and remount the filter canister OUTSIDE the fuel tank, in the unused space just behind the fuel injectors.
.
Noob question: why remove the fuel filter from inside the fuel tank? Couldn't you just add an external fuel filter to extend the life of the internal one?
Also-you guys should be getting paid$ by BMW R&D!
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:01 PM   #26
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The pump has 2 filters, all part of stand alone unit. The pre pump filter is a large bag type. The post pump filter is a small cartridge type. That's the one that gets plugged.

It is basically just too small to last the life time of the bike. On top of that, it gets plugged while the first filter remains clean. They are both 10 micron filters. That makes it highly suspicious that the pump is contributing to the debris in the filter.

So leave the pump and bag filter in the tank, remove the post pump filter out of it. That's doable easy enough and it is in a location where it can be replaced.

As for finding a metal 10 micron filter, look at Marine or ATV sites.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:03 PM   #27
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All the stuff I blew out of mine looked like large particles, but if you cover your finger in it and rub fingers together, it forms a really smooth paste. Not sure what it is. When I lived in Far North Queensland it was red dust sediment that get's introduced into the tank either from the fuel tanks in remote roadhouses, or via the fuel tank breather.

I've spent half a day with a 4x4 tank on the front lawn with a pressure washer inside it to remove a half inch layer of sediment from inside it. That was from a vehicle that was about 7 years old. It looked like standard FNQ bauxite dust in the process of forming sedimentary rock.

I'm curious if it's actually something that comes from the local environment and storage, end use of the fuel, or if it's actually something that is a left over from refining/storage/transport. Because I have the same looking sediment in the BMW and I haven't had it north of Brisbane. Like a red brown paste if you rub it between your fingers. Feels like grease.

I think I can rule out the upper cylinder lube I use, because others have had the same problem, and because with other vehicles with far higher mileage and consumption I haven't had an issue with the filters and the upper cylinder lube. Not sure if that counts as a scientific basis for excluding it, but for now it'll do.

With more and more independent fuel transport companies here now, and not dedicated Fuel company trucks, they may be carrying oil for recycling one trip, and premium unleaded the next. It's a common problem with diesel and modern common rail diesel engines here. I had issues with performance, fuel consumption, and knocking, until I switched to using only BP diesel, because at that time BP were transporting using their own trucks. After that I was a firm believer in using BP diesel only. For petrol I've never worried, but predominantly it's been BP because there's a BP servo about 1.2km from home.

Anyway..theoreticals aside...today I got a metal in line filter from the local filter supplier. He told me that another guy with a BMW had the same problem and purchased the same filter. It appears to be quite capable of fitting just under the left side throttle body, with that little panel removed it goes in there quite nicely. I'm off to get some decent hose clamps.

Pics to follow.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:02 PM   #28
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Carbon. Most of the stuff in the filter is carbon shed from the brushes in the pump motor. Heck there'll be copper too, from the comm.

/ I pulled the (failing) Bosch supply pump from the Grand Viitara I used to drive @ 150k or so. Not only haad the brushes near-as-damnit gone, but the comm was about down to the insulator too. And that had nice slippy diesel all it's life...


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Old 10-11-2013, 01:49 AM   #29
Snowy
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Yeah, carbon could be a big part of it. Makes sense. A little red dust will give it the colour, or powdered copper for that matter.

Solution:





Unfortunately I guessed and got the filter with 5/16 spigots, and I guessed wrong. The standard hose is 6mm.

So I took some brass 6 mm fittings with a 10mm thread on one end, used the electric drill and bench grinder and made my own 8mm to 6mm adapters. A few hose clamps, I took out the internal filter and put a number 2 phillips screw driver through the guts of it.

The original hose got cut near the top of the fuel tank, I fitted a 6mm to 8mm adapter, and I ran 8mm hose from there to the filter, then from the filter to an 8mm to 6mm adapter and up to the throttle body.

Job done. I put some plastic spiral wrap around the frame where the filter is likely to knock or rub against it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
Yeah, carbon could be a big part of it. Makes sense. A little red dust will give it the colour, or powdered copper for that matter.

Solution:





Unfortunately I guessed and got the filter with 5/16 spigots, and I guessed wrong. The standard hose is 6mm.

So I took some brass 6 mm fittings with a 10mm thread on one end, used the electric drill and bench grinder and made my own 8mm to 6mm adapters. A few hose clamps, I took out the internal filter and put a number 2 phillips screw driver through the guts of it.

The original hose got cut near the top of the fuel tank, I fitted a 6mm to 8mm adapter, and I ran 8mm hose from there to the filter, then from the filter to an 8mm to 6mm adapter and up to the throttle body.

Job done. I put some plastic spiral wrap around the frame where the filter is likely to knock or rub against it.
Let us know how it works out, as I would be cautious about this location, due to engine heat heating the filter, and actually could cause vapor lock..... At least in theory.
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