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Old 10-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #46
MikeMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver View Post


I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!
You passed the skin thickness test like a true champ.

You obviously dont reside in that hotbed of ADV riding called Pennsylvania.

I swear, if someone comes up with a near plug and play solution like a Corolla pump and a little Holly ouboard underseat with clamps and a funky high impact plastic wrench for the pump top sealer ring, it would sell, sell, sell. You and Cory need to sit in a bar and design "a damn good solution" and put it on the market to compliment that outboard Camel tank
Then we can all get some peace of mind.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:34 PM   #47
Loutre
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Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post

Loutre: Doesn't the KL18 have male fittings on both ends?
We need the "female" fitting (I don't know what the hell you really call it) on the output side ...
FFS Well then it's back to the search list :o)
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:35 AM   #48
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The clearances are such that a roller-cell pump aint going to allow much back-flow. If you want to try flushing the filter in-situ I'm betting you'll need to run the OE pump backwards, maybe at a reduced voltage.
But that's no guarantee it won't still try and make pressure, depends how it's ported.

And there might be a non-return valve buried in the pump anyways.


has anyone stripped a dead pump? My search-fu may be lacking...
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:27 AM   #49
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver View Post


I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!

I'm about to swap out my old assembly with that new one you were drooling over. I have a Jeep fuel pump of the same design (but larger). I figured I'd get a rheostat thing and pump fuel backwards at low pressure into the output barb and see what happens. Blow it all back through the pump without disassembling it. I may wreck it or start the garage on fire but it wouldn't be the first time.
I was thinking about it ... and "recirculating" the cleaning fluid doesn't seem like a good idea ... so maybe you have to pump it backwards through the OEM filter the "frontwards" thru some other filter then use it again ...
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:32 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpm View Post
The clearances are such that a roller-cell pump aint going to allow much back-flow. If you want to try flushing the filter in-situ I'm betting you'll need to run the OE pump backwards, maybe at a reduced voltage.
But that's no guarantee it won't still try and make pressure, depends how it's ported.

And there might be a non-return valve buried in the pump anyways.


has anyone stripped a dead pump? My search-fu may be lacking...
I've not seen a dead PUMP autopsy ... only a dead filter autopsy....
Joel once said the pump could be run backwards for short periods of time to try to clear a jam, but that's not the same as what we are talking about here .........

I need a dead OEM assembly to stare at for a while ... and see if I can get two or three neurons talking to each other...........
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:34 AM   #51
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loutre View Post
FFS Well then it's back to the search list :o)
Sorry ... I wanted to save you that goose-chase ...
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpm View Post
The clearances are such that a roller-cell pump aint going to allow much back-flow. If you want to try flushing the filter in-situ I'm betting you'll need to run the OE pump backwards, maybe at a reduced voltage.
But that's no guarantee it won't still try and make pressure, depends how it's ported.

And there might be a non-return valve buried in the pump anyways.


has anyone stripped a dead pump? My search-fu may be lacking...
Yes, I'd considered all that in my head anyways. I wasn't sure if it was a centrifugal pump or? I used to rebuild Jet engine fuel pumps and they had a 1st stage centrifugal to 1000 psi then a gear pump to 4000 psi. Figured a Cent pump could get up to our pressures. I could always sacrifice the Jeep pump of the same design if it continues to rain here......... I'll locate the band-aids first.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #53
Reaver
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Mr Clean

OK so I went ahead and put a 2012 pump assembly in my 09 with 65k kms on it purely as PM. The bike always ran fine.

Then I purged the old filter. The sock was spotless and I found some but very little dirt when I back flushed the filter. I found a 60cc stringe will seal the output end of the filter well enough to build up some pressure while forcefully squezing it. There's an o ring in that end of the filter. When emptied of fuel, I could blow through it easy enough so very little blockage. Running the pump backwards does empty the filter/pump pretty quick.



I didn't try it but you could put a hose on the output barb with the end in fresh fuel and use intermittant reverse voltage to clean it out well enough.

If I hadn't already installed the new assy I'dve been just as confident reinstalling the old one seeing as it was pretty damn clean.

Oh well, probably put it in the FM.

PS......sorry for the detour, back to inline filters now!
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:34 PM   #54
Full Power OP
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Thank you for the high quality photo, and report of a very CLEAN OEM filter, with 65000 kilometers .
Sounds like your area of operation has VERY clean fuel available.
The Australians and reports from African adventurers have horrendous debris and more frequently clogged filters.
.
Can you estimate the physical VOLUME displaced by the OEM filter canister ?
Do you suppose that VOLUME would be added to the usable fuel capacity of the stock fuel tank, if said filter were removed?
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:54 PM   #55
Reaver
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Well, I had hoped to provide another means of preventative maintenance for said people in the poor fuel countries by satisfying myself that reversing the flow and backflushing the filter was doable and likely lead to a longer life. Operating in dirty, dusty conditions requires more maintenance. Wasn't questioning your attempts at skinning the cat your way.

In any case, an empty fuel filter would displace enough fuel for a few mile run I suppose but since it operates full of fuel then only the thin metal cannister and paper filter material would be displacing fuel. Probably about as much as one more half second squeeze of the nozzle after it shuts off.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:11 PM   #56
JRWooden
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I'll post some pictures shortly, but I just did the autopsy of the filter that McCardigan graciously provided to me (thanks!).
He was having bike troubles and IIRC a dealer here in the USA replaced the entire assembly.

McCardigan is from OZ, so most of his miles have been accumulated down-under ...

So here's the short report:

The body of the filter is pretty beefy … it actually looks like a pretty good filter…


I’ll post pictures shortly, here are the rough dimensions if it helps anyone find a drop-in replacement:

0.85mm Thickness of shell material
55mm Body diameter
58mm Body height
20mm Length of nipple
7mm Base diameter of nipple
10.5mm diameter of outlet port
6.8mm Depth of outlet port to top of o-ring (approx.)
40mm x 1170mm Filter media size (~4700 sq. cm)


The inlet side of the filter was a very dark grey and covered with something that was a bit slippery and rubbed of on my hands pretty easily ... it was not quite as slick as graphite, more like a greasy deposit....


The filter was did NOT have any huge amount of debris on the inlet side ... just uniformly discolored to the dark grey color. I'm no expert, but I can't see this filter being the cause of the problems McCardigan was having.... there is a lot of filter area, and the filter does not appear to "loaded" down ....



If you have any special questions ask... I'll post pics as soon as I am able...




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Old 10-28-2013, 12:47 AM   #57
McCardigan
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G/day Jim

Thanks for your investigation, Interesting observations, I was sure that the filter would have been heavily clogged.

Just a note, that filter had seen fuel, mainly premium unleaded, pass through it for over 80,000kms (50,000m). the last 14,000kms on petrol containing ethanol (Canada/USA). The 1st 35,000 kms were done in Europe, again on premium unleaded. No ethanol.

However the symptoms of the bike stalling etc, first started here in summer in Oz almost 12 mths ago, once to me and several times to a friend of mine who had borrowed the bike for a month to ride Sth East Oz in the middle of a heat wave (temps up to 45C/110+F).

So, I don't think ethanol is the problem.

The fuel pump is on its way back to Oz in a pannier with the bike, which is due to be collected from a ship in late November. I'll give it to my BMW mechanics to inspect, and if you are interested I can ship that to you after they have looked at it.

Cheers

Chris
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:09 AM   #58
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCardigan View Post
G/day Jim

Thanks for your investigation, Interesting observations, I was sure that the filter would have been heavily clogged.

Just a note, that filter had seen fuel, mainly premium unleaded, pass through it for over 80,000kms (50,000m). the last 14,000kms on petrol containing ethanol (Canada/USA). The 1st 35,000 kms were done in Europe, again on premium unleaded. No ethanol.

However the symptoms of the bike stalling etc, first started here in summer in Oz almost 12 mths ago, once to me and several times to a friend of mine who had borrowed the bike for a month to ride Sth East Oz in the middle of a heat wave (temps up to 45C/110+F).

So, I don't think ethanol is the problem.

The fuel pump is on its way back to Oz in a pannier with the bike, which is due to be collected from a ship in late November. I'll give it to my BMW mechanics to inspect, and if you are interested I can ship that to you after they have looked at it.

Cheers

Chris
I honestly expected to see it clogged as well, but it really looked OK, just some very modest surface deposits and given the large fiter-area it just didn't look like it would be an issue..........

I guess in your case it was either the pump or perhaps the controller ... but they didn't replace the controller did they?

I'd really like to do an autopsy on a pump, but hate for you to have to pay shipping from OZ on the damn thing ....

When you get it give a shout, and if the group has not had another "donor" pump show up I'll take you p on that offer!

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:14 AM   #59
McCardigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
I honestly expected to see it clogged as well, but it really looked OK, just some very modest surface deposits and given the large fiter-area it just didn't look like it would be an issue..........

I guess in your case it was either the pump or perhaps the controller ... but they didn't replace the controller did they?

I'd really like to do an autopsy on a pump, but hate for you to have to pay shipping from OZ on the damn thing ....

When you get it give a shout, and if the group has not had another "donor" pump show up I'll take you p on that offer!

Thanks,
Jim
G/day Jim,

Correct, the BMW dealer in Edmonton Canada, only replaced the fuel pump, not the controller as I was led to believe would happen in the quoted price. In hindsight, a blessing in disguise, as I rode another 10,000kms without a problem, in quite hot temps.

Hey, there is a saying here in Oz "In for a penny, in for a pound".
Happy to post it back to you regardless of cost. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this issue.

Cheers

Chris
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:27 AM   #60
MikeMike
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McCardigan, quick question.
In your normal riding habits, in both Oz and in North America, did you normally run your bike down to almost empty and refill, or below 1/3 of the tank and refill? Or were you normally refilling at half a tank or perhaps as soon as the kilometer countdown started for refilling?
I'm curious if constant overheating of the pump has something to do with it playing up. We all know the pump is cooled by the surrounding fuel, but if a rider is constantly running down to near empty and the exposed pump is always getting hotter than normal, could this be a problem?
Just curious!
Maybe other riders can weigh in on this, too.
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