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Old 10-17-2013, 07:52 PM   #61
def
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Wow def, quite impressive and from a neighbor State, beats my 12 volt light bulb all to hell.

Terry
Well Terry, I don't know what state yer from but I'm in a state of confusion over all this battery/diode stuff. Thank heavens we've got Roger to sort it out for us.

He lives up there near that MIT place where they invented some stuff called AM radio and scrod....scrod...sounds like the past tense of screwed.

Now, I don't want to steal the thread so, I'll sign off.

73
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #62
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Here's a quick update. I discharged my PC680 again last night this time it took an additional hour which means there was 13 aH of output, up from 11 hours on the first discharge. It's headed in the right direction. Bike continues to start well.


1st time: 6 hours to discharge (11 aH), 16 hours to recharge
2nd time: 7 hours to discharge (13 aH), 22 hours to recharge

Goal is 16 amp-hours, cycle can be repeated up to 5 times. Each cycle removes sulfate from undercharging.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:49 PM   #63
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Roger, what level of recovery did your reach with your battery? Also, how did you load the battery during the discharge? What do you use to determine when you have discharged to goal?
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:27 PM   #64
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Roger, what level of recovery did your reach with your battery? Also, how did you load the battery during the discharge? What do you use to determine when you have discharged to goal?
For the PC680 for the first two runs i used a 6 ohm 50 watt resistor. I monitored the battery voltage and stopped discharging at 10 V per Odyssey's instructions.

For the third run today I used a 4 ohm resistor (50 W) which is for he 5 hr. discharge rate. Estimated charge for the third discharge was 87%.

So the summary is 68%, 80%, 87%. This means the battery has improved.

I called odyssey today about the slow charging rate. After some discussion we agreed the charger is defective and they're sending another. Great customer service.

The charger's problem was it was tripping to a low current initial charge. In its place today I used my car idling for an hour and a half which charged the battery at an 8 amp rate, finishing with the odyssey unit.

I'm hopeful that when I get a working charger later in the week I can add some more capacity, maybe getting to 100%.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:54 AM   #65
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While waiting for the charger to arrive, I ran a test yesterday. After pulling the Motronic and Fuel Pump Relays, and the Motronic fuse, I powered all those circuits with jumpers from a second battery.

The idea of this test was to see how well it started if the voltage supplying those circuits was not glitched by the starter load. The home alarm 7 aH battery I used resulted in a steady 11.4 volts with the 5-6 amp fuel pump load.

It turned over once or twice and started; the sensors were better behaved than I have ever seen. It ran very smoothly immediately.

1. The RPM jumped from 0 to 1350 RPM in 1.1 seconds.
2. The spark advance kicked in immediately and stayed at about 12 degrees. (This often moves from zero to 14 back to 7, all over the place during a cold start.)
3. The dwell moved smartly to 1.6 mS and stayed there reliably. (This often moves from 0.6 to 0.3 to 1.6, etc.)

RB

Chart of Start Sequence (RPM on Right Axis)

roger 04 rt screwed with this post 10-25-2013 at 08:05 PM
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #66
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To try and further see what parts of the power system were being affected by starting transients I ran three more tests:

1. Connect only the Motronic to the second battery. Leave pump/injectors on the main battery.

Results: Not a bad start but longer and not as clean as the test in the prior post, when both the Motronic and Pump/Injectors were on a second battery.

2. Power everything as usual but use a second battery for starting.

Results: Okay, but kicking in the starter solenoid took the voltage on the main battery to 10.5 volts, and then the alternator came on line bringing the voltage to 13.6 volts. That was enough voltage changing to affect the fueling and maybe the Motronic. As a result it took longer to get a stable idle.

3. Run the test in the prior post--Motronic and pump/injector on a second battery.

Results: same good results as in the prior post.

Still waiting to see how things will be when my battery is recovered. However there is no doubt that a second small battery for the injectors and Motronic would produce a great starting R1150. A bit theoretical since I doubt I'll add a second.battery.
RB
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:47 PM   #67
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Roger, some while back, there seemed to be a lot of chatter regarding LiFePO4 engine start batteries. These batteries had power to spare at cold start after some load warming and awakening of the chemistry. However, I have not seen many posts regarding these batteries lately.

Possibly, they are just not appropriate for our charging systems.

But, they are sure light weight and have very high current density/volume.

Any thoughts? I know you're rejuvenating your Oddyssey and would likely stick with that battery type and brand.

Just curious....
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:59 AM   #68
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Roger, some while back, there seemed to be a lot of chatter regarding LiFePO4 engine start batteries. These batteries had power to spare at cold start after some load warming and awakening of the chemistry. However, I have not seen many posts regarding these batteries lately.

Possibly, they are just not appropriate for our charging systems.

But, they are sure light weight and have very high current density/volume.

Any thoughts? I know you're rejuvenating your Oddyssey and would likely stick with that battery type and brand.

Just curious....
I considered that but don't think I'd go that route. If I powered just the injectors and Motronic, I'd need 1 aH, give or take, and a relay to keep the battery disconnected from the alternator for, say, a minute till things were warmed up. If I did that, I think the bike would start up in about 1 second every time.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #69
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How about a step up converter + regulator to feed the motronic and injectors 14.4 volts all of the time?
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:42 AM   #70
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How about a step up converter + regulator to feed the motronic and injectors 14.4 volts all of the time?
$$
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:13 PM   #71
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if it only needs 1 amp, they are not very expensive.


here is a $10 example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15W-2A-DC-to...item3386ca6255

a $7 example

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2587-Volum...item4acb25404b
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:17 PM   #72
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Ah yes China! Got to get my head out of Industrial!

Good idea, worth a try for sure.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #73
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might not be robust enough, and would have to be potted to be waterproof, which might make it overheat.

I was just thinking outloud really.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #74
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might not be robust enough, and would have to be potted to be waterproof, which might make it overheat.

I was just thinking outloud really.

Hey, worth the R&D IMO.
the voltage increase & duty cycle is minimal so heat may no be an issue
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #75
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Roger good thread, Great job on explaining how low battery effects Motronic and performance. I have a lot to say but don't rush out to mod the alternator- I think that is a mistake. We don't want any riders with flame out grip heaters on mountain twisties. Give Klim a chance to develop asbestos athletic protectors (inevitable thermal runaway). 13. 8 vdc at 70F is low. I think 14.2 ought to be the upper limit for most.

Starter testing needs more discussion. There are smart battery monitors that are now available that get re-set with install of new battery. They monitor cranking amps, cranking volts, idle voltage and running volts then report back to rider with battery and electrical system health in a number of ways including % remaining reserve. What has always been deficient is rider system feedback.

Winter is a good time to clean the ground on the engine (if you can find it).

As long as everyone with Odyssey is messing around don't forget that shorting the pos terminal to the tank will cost you big bucks.
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