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Old 10-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
I have a lot to say but don't rush out to mod the alternator- I think that is a mistake.
I modded mine 10 years ago and let me you tell it was no mistake.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:55 PM   #77
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Thanks guys for all the good input. If the voltage at the Motronic and injectors can stay rock stable for 30-60 seconds, the bike starts beautifully. Even 11.4 volts, if it is steady gives a great result.

Second small battery and diode to block the starting downdraft,

Or second battery and timed relay

Or dc-dc converter.

Lots of choices. A powersonic 1.2aH agm battery is only $12. That with a schotkey diode to the main battery would be effective.

RB

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Old 10-27-2013, 01:23 AM   #78
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Roger, Looking forward to your voltage stabilization solution. I'm curious why I have never experienced hard starting issue 95-01 model years. Maybe can find time to send you GS911 data.

I would like to know if the 12A Ultimizer heated your battery. I have the 6A and 25A models. I have also used 7 stage smart chip 2/6/8 which has: analysis; "rejuvenation" pulse mode; "soft start"for deeply discharged; bulk; constant voltage absorption 14.7; equalization; constant voltage float 13.6. (don't use this more than 6 hours) . Still looking for a reasonably priced model with temp probe. I think that is real important for Ody.
------

GS Addict:
O.K. I found your 2010 bmoa post:
Looks like you went with 14.6v. How does this temperature compensate for those riding 100F+ desert? If you were en-route and were forced to put in a flooded?

Good to know that there are no mc component failures at this voltage. I'm a bit confused about the float voltage that you were quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Addict View Post
I modded mine 10 years ago and let me you tell it was no mistake.

BMOA 2010...
"Another comment from Odyssey was that AGM batteries will sulfate if left on 13.6 -13.7 trickle charge (typical of most battery tenders etc.)
AGM's want/need 13.9 to 14.0v"
Low float causes grid corrosion not sulfation.

The float spec on the label of my April 2011 PC680 states Float: 13.5-13.8

Rather than float to offset parasitic drain I use a Hella 500A marine disconnect. I do not believe that Ody. should be floated other than as a final stage for a few hours.

Which brings me to my last question for Roger. How much "re-learning" time to reach optimal state will there be each time F5 is pulled... MO 2.2? 2.4? Just a guess but this would be more of an issue for someone living in the mountains who might ride sea level to 2,000 ft in a few hours after re-connecting.

Tech Man 7th ED refer to fig 6 pg 15:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:17 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
Roger, Looking forward to your voltage stabilization solution. I'm curious why I have never experienced hard starting issue 95-01 model years. Maybe can find time to send you GS911 data.

I would like to know if the 12A Ultimizer heated your battery. I have the 6A and 25A models. I have also used 7 stage smart chip 2/6/8 which has: analysis; "rejuvenation" pulse mode; "soft start"for deeply discharged; bulk; constant voltage absorption 14.7; equalization; constant voltage float 13.6. (don't use this more than 6 hours) . Still looking for a reasonably priced model with temp probe. I think that is real important for Ody.
------

GS Addict:
O.K. I found your 2010 bmoa post:
Looks like you went with 14.6v. How does this temperature compensate for those riding 100F+ desert? If you were en-route and were forced to put in a flooded?

Good to know that there are no mc component failures at this voltage. I'm a bit confused about the float voltage that you were quoted.



Low float causes grid corrosion not sulfation.

The float spec on the label of my April 2011 PC680 states Float: 13.5-13.8

Rather than float to offset parasitic drain I use a Hella 500A marine disconnect. I do not believe that Ody. should be floated other than as a final stage for a few hours.

Which brings me to my last question for Roger. How much "re-learning" time to reach optimal state will there be each time F5 is pulled... MO 2.2? 2.4? Just a guess but this would be more of an issue for someone living in the mountains who might ride sea level to 2,000 ft in a few hours after re-connecting.

Tech Man 7th ED refer to fig 6 pg 15:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
All the mod does is shift the charge voltage, the voltage compensation is part of the regulator itself and still applies. I have ridden in high desert temps and the voltage drops as low as 14.2v. I have also seen the voltage as high as 14.8 on very cold mornings for a short time. Typical everyday V is 14.6. My machine has a calibrated voltmeter directly connected across the battery and is on all the time. (parasitic load is 1ma)
As far as the float figures go, they were given to me by an engineer at Odyssey back in 2002. He was not keen on floating long term either and highly recommended disconnecting for long periods, he used the term sulfation.
From the results I have seen, long term floating these batteries (especially with the wrong type of charger) is not good. I agree with him.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:14 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
Roger, Looking forward to your voltage stabilization solution. I'm curious why I have never experienced hard starting issue 95-01 model years. Maybe can find time to send you GS911 data.

I think I see this for three reasons. 1. I have instruments on my bike all the time. The first start is a little slow but once running no issues for the rest of the day. It isn't easy to notice--until you do. 2. I had a bad plug. 3. My stick coils were sub par.

I would like to know if the 12A Ultimizer heated your battery. I did not heat the battery. But it was defective. I'll check when the replacement arrives mid-week. I have the 6A and 25A models. I have also used 7 stage smart chip 2/6/8 which has: analysis; "rejuvenation" pulse mode; "soft start"for deeply discharged; bulk; constant voltage absorption 14.7; equalization; constant voltage float 13.6. (don't use this more than 6 hours) . Still looking for a reasonably priced model with temp probe. I think that is real important for Ody.
------

GS Addict:
O.K. I found your 2010 bmoa post:
Looks like you went with 14.6v. How does this temperature compensate for those riding 100F+ desert? If you were en-route and were forced to put in a flooded?

Good to know that there are no mc component failures at this voltage. I'm a bit confused about the float voltage that you were quoted.



Low float causes grid corrosion not sulfation. I had a float voltage from my battery tender of 13.1 volts for most of a year and a half.

The float spec on the label of my April 2011 PC680 states Float: 13.5-13.8 Interesting that my alternator voltage equals the float voltage spec.

Rather than float to offset parasitic drain I use a Hella 500A marine disconnect. I do not believe that Ody. should be floated other than as a final stage for a few hours.

Which brings me to my last question for Roger. How much "re-learning" time to reach optimal state will there be each time F5 is pulled... MO 2.2? 2.4? The times seem similar. A 10 to 20 mile ride gives it a good start but it is probably a few tanks of fuel to cover most of the adaptation range, whatever that is (it's a BMW secret).Just a guess but this would be more of an issue for someone living in the mountains who might ride sea level to 2,000 ft in a few hours after re-connecting.My second battery would provide continuous power so the resetting isn't an issue.

Tech Man 7th ED refer to fig 6 pg 15:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
My comments in yellow above.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #81
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Today I ran a cold start test using a 13.7 volt source to power the Motronic and fuel pump/injectors. I found a very interesting result regarding dwell time. Keep in mind that I have new stick coils installed.

Before getting to today's result, yesterday when I cold-started with a stand-alone battery whose voltage was 11.7 volts powering fuel pump/injectors and Motronic, the after-start stick coil dwell was about 1.7 mS.

Today (same config) using a 13.7 volt source--my car's battery with the alternator running--the dwell time was 0.5 mS, that's 1/3 of the dwell compared to using the 11.7 volt source. And the start was not as robust as when I used the 11.7 volt source.

The difference is that the coils had 13.7 volts on them today (note to self: check voltage on the other side of the key which powers the sticks) and the Motronic read my second battery also 13.7. Yesterday, the Motronic read the second battery at 11.7 but the coils had actually 13.7V. So the combination of a high voltage at the sticks but the Motronic thinking it was a low voltage leading to longer dwell produced a spark that better combused the mixture.

I'm floored! Who would have guessed that the Motronic sets dwell partly based on battery voltage? And that a stronger spark would lead to a better start!!

RB
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:39 PM   #82
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Now things are really getting interesting. Excellent work Roger.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:38 PM   #83
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How about a simple buck/boost power module to the Motronic and injectors?
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:43 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by EKinOR View Post
How about a simple buck/boost power module to the Motronic and injectors?
MOF had suggested something like that. And it sounds like an elegant solution. I don't know much about them practically so a couple questions com to mind. How would the B/B supply react to the starting transient which is 12.8V, 9V, 10.5V, 13.9V, all in a couple seconds? Who makes those supplies and where can they be purchased?
RB
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:28 AM   #85
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Hi Roger:

I think mouthfulloflake has suggested a good solution. I looked around on Digi-Key and found nothing useful under $120.

The data sheet for the LM2587 (on which one of those modules is based) shows output regulation specified to within 20mV typical, but can be as high as 200mV worst case.
Input voltage range is 4 - 40V.
So the 9-14V you have encountered is well within its capability.

I don't think heat will be a problem, switched-mode is very efficient.
I'd add some transient protection regardless of their spec. but that's just me, I sometimes draw criticism for suggesting it.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:53 AM   #86
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Mike, Thanks. Is Digikey the best place to look for it? RB
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:19 AM   #87
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Ill try and remember to order one of these up and do some testing with it with a varying input voltage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-DC-DC-B...item4aca74a505
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:41 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Mike, Thanks. Is Digikey the best place to look for it? RB
Digi-Key is my goto in Canada due to border and shipping mostly so I know their site the best.
I use Newark and Mouser sometimes.
All have links to data sheets.
If you want a cheap off-shore module that will probably work fine; I usually look around at DealExtreme "Dx.com".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post
Ill try and remember to order one of these up and do some testing with it with a varying input voltage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-DC-DC-B...item4aca74a505
I may be wrong but I think Roger wants the voltage held at 12V, not 12 or over, so Buck/Boost module.
I read 1A, do you need more than that?
Here's one for B/B 1A.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:22 AM   #89
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the output voltage has to be higher than the input voltage, I am unsure what will happen when the charging system is online and the battery voltage goes to 13.8 when the dc-dc converter is set to 12 volts?

maybe set the dc-dc converter to 14 volts, or some arbitrary but safe number slightly above a voltage that the battery could never achieve.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorradMike View Post

I may be wrong but I think Roger wants the voltage held at 12V, not 12 or over, so Buck/Boost module.
I read 1A, do you need more than that?
Here's one for B/B 1A.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #90
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The Motronic must be powered by either the battery directly, or the B/B regulator(using the battery as its source).
The regulator output will be 12V(adjustable via pot) regardless of input voltage (as long as it's between 4 and 28V or whatever the spec. ends up being).

I agree the regulator output must not be connected to a source.
Why not simply use the regulator to power the Motronic full time?
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