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Old 01-20-2014, 11:53 AM   #211
HogWild OP
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Just back from a couple of days scouting, meeting with one of our new big new sponsors, and working with the guys doing the environmental impact study. All those things are falling into place better than expected.

Here are a couple of photos from the scouting...

Pit stop for enviro study:


A very cool place along the course:


There's a good amount of hard-pack roads:


Some "locals" out enjoying the dunes.
They had heard of Rally Diabolico, and all wanted to volunteer to help at the event.
We may take them up on that to help pickup any broken bikes in the remote areas.


A simple spelling mistake:


More of the super fun stuff:
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:08 PM   #212
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GREAT NEWS!!!
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:19 PM   #213
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thats good looking.

edit: hfsb
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:21 PM   #214
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Man I wish I could swing this and norra but i am commited to norra this year but will be all over this next year !
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:54 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by BAZZER450 View Post
Man I wish I could swing this and norra but i am commited to norra this year but will be all over this next year !
Yeah, I committed early when the Baja Rally was originally going to be in May. Could only swing 2 out of the 3 so opted for the NORRA 1000 and the Baja Rally (I was just going to stay in Mexico in between the two events). Already made other commitments for business on the dates of Diabolical. Had I known earlier about the postponement of the Baja Rally, I probably would have planned for Diabolical. But as you said - there's next year!
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:36 AM   #216
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I posted this on RDC where there was a question about difficulty...

We're trying to make it so a moderately experienced racer with a capable vehicle can do it. The navigation will be challenging, but mainly because of the terrain, not any tricks or complicated concepts. It's pretty much the same as in Dakar or any quality cross-country rally. Take a NORRA Roadbook, step it up a notch for the "HP" roadless sections (i.e. dunes), and you'll have a Diabolico roadbook. You WILL have to be on your toes in watching your odometer and compass headings.

Much of the "extreme" verbiage on the website is oriented towards those who have never navigated with a roadbook, and/or never been in enormous dunes. This rally is quite different from anything most North American off-roaders have experienced.

We understand the concerns many have over the difficulty of the navigation. Here are 10 things at Rally Diabolico that should relieve those concerns:
1) We want this to be challenging, but achievable by everyone who enters.
2) We will have a navigation class just before the race.
3) Everyone will have a SPOT tracker so we can see where you are.
4) We will have crews around the course who can go get you if you're lost or stranded.
5) Unless you're leading the race, the tracks from those ahead of you can help you find your way.
6) There will be a handful of waypoints loaded into your GPS to help you find your way back to a known point on the course or back to the bivouac if you get lost.
7) In the dunes, many of the "waypoints" will have a flag marker so you know when you're in the right place. Your GPS will also help with that.
8) The first day is easy navigation, so you can ease into it without being overwhelmed.
9) The first 150 miles of the second day are easy navigation.
10) The hardest navigation is on the last day. If you can follow a compass heading and your odometer, it's fairly easy. The challenge is sticking on that compass heading in the terrain you're faced with. By that 4th day, you should be getting pretty good at this!
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #217
Country Doc
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This looks so fantastic....!!!

Although I am intimidated by the dunes and my lack of nav experience, those points made by HogWild above are pushing me to throw caution to the wind! I think the RMS course pre-rally would be a terrific addition as well.

Where else could we get a Dakar like experience, like we all dream about? Gotta make some calls. I'll kick myself if I miss this. Not sure if I can reorganize work but damned if I don't try.

dc
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:02 PM   #218
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I'll kick myself if I miss this.
+1

We're gonna have a heck of a fun week!

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Old 01-21-2014, 08:50 PM   #219
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Just finished two days of navigation training
Little bit of everything including some nice big dunes
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:29 PM   #220
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Shorter gas range!

We have modified the course to allow for two gas stops on the long stages for motos/quads. The longest range needed is now 85 miles. One stop will be neutralized, while the other is "on the clock". Those with a range of 150 miles can skip the "on the clock" stop and only utilize the neutralized stop. Entry includes 5 gallons of pit gas for each moto/quad for each of the two long days.

We are also allowing one "on the clock" stop for cars/trucks/UTVs on the long stages. The Driver / Navigator must shut down and exit the vehicle, and pour their own gas from cans they supply. No race crews are allowed in or near the gas pit. Each car/truck/UTV wishing to utilize the gas pit must supply their own gas in their own cans to race officials the day before the long stages (Stage 2 & 3). Diabolico officials will deliver those gas cans to the gas pit. The longest stage is approximately 225 miles. The pit will allow a car/truck/UTV with 150 mile range to complete the course.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:38 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Much of the "extreme" verbiage on the website is oriented towards those who have never navigated with a roadbook, and/or never been in enormous dunes. This rally is quite different from anything most North American off-roaders have experienced.
I'm excited for this, but a little apprehensive about the Nav. Baja Rally was my first (and last... so far) time using a RB. In the dunes, if you make a mistake and blow a Navigation change how to get back on the RB without having a "known" to go back to? If there are no reference points how does one correct their mileage? Does that make sense?
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:46 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
We understand the concerns many have over the difficulty of the navigation. Here are 10 things at Rally Diabolico that should relieve those concerns:
1) We want this to be challenging, but achievable by everyone who enters.
2) We will have a navigation class just before the race.
3) Everyone will have a SPOT tracker so we can see where you are.
4) We will have crews around the course who can go get you if you're lost or stranded.
5) Unless you're leading the race, the tracks from those ahead of you can help you find your way.
6) There will be a handful of waypoints loaded into your GPS to help you find your way back to a known point on the course or back to the bivouac if you get lost.
7) In the dunes, many of the "waypoints" will have a flag marker so you know when you're in the right place. Your GPS will also help with that.
8) The first day is easy navigation, so you can ease into it without being overwhelmed.
9) The first 150 miles of the second day are easy navigation.
10) The hardest navigation is on the last day. If you can follow a compass heading and your odometer, it's fairly easy. The challenge is sticking on that compass heading in the terrain you're faced with. By that 4th day, you should be getting pretty good at this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross-country View Post
I'm excited for this, but a little apprehensive about the Nav. Baja Rally was my first (and last... so far) time using a RB. In the dunes, if you make a mistake and blow a Navigation change how to get back on the RB without having a "known" to go back to? If there are no reference points how does one correct their mileage? Does that make sense?

Essentially, #6 is your ripcord. I'm apprehensive as hell, too, I just cant wait to get there!
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:54 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cross-country View Post
I'm excited for this, but a little apprehensive about the Nav. Baja Rally was my first (and last... so far) time using a RB. In the dunes, if you make a mistake and blow a Navigation change how to get back on the RB without having a "known" to go back to? If there are no reference points how does one correct their mileage?
There ARE reference points. We are calling them Virtual Checkpoints (VCP). Your GPS will show you on the screen when you are at or near one of these VCP points. Plus, in most cases there will be a physical flag planted in the dune at that point. Plus there are actual GPS waypoints which are explained below.

But unless you're one of the leaders, there's a simple way to minimize the chances of going off course. If you don't see any fresh tire tracks near you, you might be off course. Consider backtracking or veering to one side or the other to find fresh tracks. If you're not the leader, you shouldn't go more than 5 minutes or so without seeing tracks before you have a hint you may have gone the wrong way. This is not a sure bet since others may have gone wrong also, but it's a good hint.

If you do get "lost in the dunes", these are some of your options:
1) There will be standard GPS waypoints at a couple of the VCP points along the course. You can tell your GPS to "Go To" one of those waypoints, and it will give you a straight line from where you are directly to that point. Since the GPS waypoints are not at ALL of the VCP points along the course, you would miss some of them if you use your GPS to "Go To", but at least you can find your way back onto the course at a known spot in the roadbook. Then you carry on from there using the roadbook, and receive a penalty for any VCP points you missed. So, with this it's basically impossible to be lost for any period of time if you know how to use your GPS. I'll be providing written instructions on how to use your GPS to find a waypoint.
2) There will be a waypoint in your GPS marking the bivouac. Just like above, you can always tell your GPS to "Go To" the bivouac. You may miss much of that stage, but at least you're not truly lost.
3) As I mentioned, there will be physical flags at most of the points in the dunes. When you're navigating per the roadbook at roughly the correct heading, and your odometer suggest you should be getting close to the VCP, your GPS will indicate you are close and show you exactly where the VCP is. And when you're close enough, you should see the physical flag.
4) Unless you're one of the lead competitors, there should be lots of fresh tracks heading in the exact direction the roadbook says to go. A savvy person could probably navigate ALL of the dunes sections without even having a GPS by just following fresh tracks. If you're lost and you come upon a bunch of tracks heading in the same direction, follow them or sit there and wait for a later competitor to come by, and ask them where in the roadbook they are. If you follow the tracks, you'll eventually come upon a VCP flag. The heading you've been on coming into that flag should help you figure out which VCP it is since that heading will be what's in the roadbook leaving the previous point.
5) Even if your GPS fails, your roadbook is eaten by sand monsters, you don't see any flags, you don't see any other competitors, and you don't see any tracks from the other competitors, if you have a sense of which way North, South, East or West is, you can find your way back to the bivouac very easily.
6) And even if all that fails, we'll be watching your SPOT tracker, so we'll know where you are, and be in a position to go get you.

Our Diabolico navigation school the day before the race will explain these things. And you could also go to RMS Dave's navigation school two days before Diabolico, where he'll be teaching this stuff and giving you some practice in the dunes at Glamis.

Hopefully this relieves your concerns over the dunes navigation.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #224
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Good stuff, my worry was less about being lost to death than it was about not being competitive for lack of experience with Nav in the dunes. Until I heard about the "Sand Monsters" that is.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:52 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by cross-country View Post
Good stuff, my worry was less about being lost to death than it was about not being competitive for lack of experience with Nav in the dunes. Until I heard about the "Sand Monsters" that is.
Here's how to win the big dunes day: Read the heading stated in the roadbook, watch the heading displayed on your GPS, try to go in roughly a straight line on the specified heading. After you've gone roughly the appropriate distance per the roadbook, and on roughly the right heading per the roadbook, your GPS will show you where the VCP is. Ride to it, then read the next entry in the roadbook for the next point and do the same thing. Do that the fastest and you'll win in the dunes!
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