ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-10-2013, 04:41 AM   #1
Keithert OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Oddometer: 506
Is 5w40 oil too thin?

I recently switched to Rotella 15w40 dino oil in both my bikes. I've been happy with the way they shift with this oil. I'm tempted to try the synthetic oil but it is 5w40. I don't fully understand the lower number part of a multi viscosity oil. Is it a 40 weight oil that flows like a 5 weight? Would the low 5w part cause any issues or leaks? The bikes are my Vulcan 1500 and Yamaha XT225. I'd also use it in various ATVs.
__________________
2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500
2005 Suzuki V-Strom 650
2005 Yamaha XT225
Keithert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:17 AM   #2
scootrboi
Studly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithert View Post
I recently switched to Rotella 15w40 dino oil in both my bikes. I've been happy with the way they shift with this oil. I'm tempted to try the synthetic oil but it is 5w40. I don't fully understand the lower number part of a multi viscosity oil. Is it a 40 weight oil that flows like a 5 weight? Would the low 5w part cause any issues or leaks? The bikes are my Vulcan 1500 and Yamaha XT225. I'd also use it in various ATVs.
I rebuilt the engine of my old German scooter in 1986, installing new bearings, seals and gaskets. After a run in period I put Mobil 5W-30 which I used for 7 years and about 50,000 miles. It worked very well and caused no leaks. I now use 10W-40 with the same results, changing oil every 2000 miles. The engine has 65,000 miles on the rebuild and still goes strong. This is a 175cc OHV fan cooled single. I have a nearly identical machine that I bought with a few hundred miles on it in 1992 (it is a 1965) and have run 10W-40 in it for 25,000 miles. It needed new rings at 20,000 miles. Oil consumption is according to specs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2982116...n/photostream/

This is the motor I rebuilt. I have it out after 27 years and 65,000 miles because the drive chain in the swingarm needs to be replaced. It ran in an oil bath of Mobil 1. I think the thin synthetic has worked well because the motor is so tight. I used to run it pretty hard, and it wouldn't overheat. Now I am more careful because I think it will run until I don't ride any more.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:22 AM   #3
txwanderer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
txwanderer's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Almost East Texas
Oddometer: 466
Goody an oil thread!!

Yanking your chain. Sometimes synthetic oil can clean things up and cause marginal gasket seals to leak. This is usually on older machines with what would be leaks anyway but the gunk has stopped it, FWIW. Hence the wives tale that goes something like synthetics will cause leaks. If you have an older machine that has never had it, this could be something to watch for.

5W-40 is going to flow like a 5 weight at 32degress (0 C), and 40 weight at 212 F. (100C) in general. Some have slightly different specs, but that is supposed to be "standard".

Said all that to tell you this. It will never be at the minimum temp weight, unless you ride when pretty cool. It will flow like a 40 weight when at operating temp anyway. The wide weight range concerns some folks as shear comes into play. Molecules start out coiled in the lower temps, straighten in the warm temps and give it the different charactoristics in flow. Transmissions tend to clip the molecules (shear) and deminish the weight differential. Not a problem for the rotella, it seems.

Been using diesel oil in bikes for a couple of decades and never had one fail me. The 15-40 has the same soot and detergent properties so leaking shouldn't be a concern, if it ever was, and the oil holds diesel engines together. They are a very hostile environment as well.

Check it out and see if it makes strange things happen. Some oil assist clutch systems don't like it, some do. That is the real concern as far as I can tell. You won't hurt anything giving it a try.

Experts in ,,,3,,,2,,,1,,,
txwanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:32 AM   #4
beemerphile
Beastly Adventurer
 
beemerphile's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Danielsville, GA USA
Oddometer: 1,566
The engineers who built the two motorcycles and know the materials and clearances and probably did a lot of testing tell you what weight and spec of oil to use. So your plan is to disregard their advice and ask a bunch of people with different motorcycles and likely no credentials or testing done on your particular machines what weight oil you should use.

Hmmm. RTFM comes to mind.
__________________
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ - Lee
Eye hate incorrect use of homophones. Ewe sound like a ate grade cereal killer. Give me a brake.
beemerphile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 05:43 AM   #5
tvpierce
Gnarly Adventurer
 
tvpierce's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Maine
Oddometer: 250
In a word, yes... you can use the synthetic. Do your own research, but I think you'll find it's considered one of the best motorcycle oils available -- at any price. I use it in all my vehicles moto or otherwise: C-10 Kawasaki Concours (sold), Honda CX 500, Honda Big Red 3 wheeler, Volvo 940 Turbo (300K miles and counting), Mercedes 190E (sold/currently has 300K miles and counting), Toyota Sienna.
I can't currently use it in my '96 R1100RT (which is spec-ed for 20W-50) because my valve guide seals need replacing. So the 40 weight synthetic causes pretty significant consumption -- about a quart per 1000 miles. If I run 20W-50, that consumption is about 1/4 quart per 1000 miles. (Hope to get to those seals some time this winter.)

If an engine is spec-ed for 40 weight oil, then it doesn't matter if it's a 5W-40 or a 15W-40. The second number -- the 40 -- is what's important.

The first number -- 5W or 15W in this case -- is the "winter" viscosity rating. So the 5W-40 flows like a 5 weight oil when cold (great for cold starts), but flows like a 40W oil at 100° C.

The Amsoil site has an excellent explanation of oil viscosity ratings in layman's terms:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
__________________
The laws of the road are superseded by the laws of physics.

"But I had the right of way!" makes a pretty crappy epitaph.
tvpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:28 AM   #6
scootrboi
Studly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 984
Before I rebuilt the engine on my scooter, it was run on 40W nondetergent oil for 16,000 miles, sat for 6 years, then I switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 and drove it hard for 6000 miles and disintegrated a main bearing. So probably the clearances were all wrong for thin synthetic. But the same engine renewed is a different story, with no end in sight. The bearings in this engine are big for a 175cc- 6305's on the crankshaft, and they are probably overqualified now.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #7
randyo
Beastly Adventurer
 
randyo's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Northern NewEngland
Oddometer: 1,421
I'm gonna skip right past 5w-40 and go to 0w-40 Rotella
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC...8en%29_TDS.pdf
__________________
RandyO
IBA # 9560
07 VeeStrom
99 SV650
82 XV920R
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject
randyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:48 AM   #8
ZEmann
want to be riding
 
ZEmann's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 539
I didn't know that existed
according to the specs
I can run that in my diesel instead of the t6 5-40 and I would if I lived anywhere colder since oil forced injectors hate cold thick oil

of course if it was going in my truck it would be going in my xr also

edit well 0-40 is a Canadian only oil s I won't be trying it and there was comments about it being no good for wet clutches

ZEmann screwed with this post 11-10-2013 at 06:58 AM
ZEmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 07:14 AM   #9
AustinJake
TE450-KLE-FXDWG
 
AustinJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Oddometer: 3,521
I switched my Husky from Mobil1 15w50 to a 50/50 mixture of 15w50 and 0w40 and it starts easier when cold, I'll be switching my Versys from 10w40 to the 0w40 soon.
__________________
____________________________________
Get fit. Stay safe. Enjoy life. Learn something to help someone in need.
AustinJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:30 AM   #10
khager
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Granbury, TX
Oddometer: 687
Ahhh another oil thread!

I use the Rotella 15W40, except for the winter I use the Rotella 5W-40.
Why not use the 5W-40 year round you may ask? $$$, I am a tight-ass!

With the temps here I only need the 5W-40 a couple of months a year.

Also the Rotella is JASO MA certified or something like that, although I have been using it years before it was "officially certified" and many thousands of miles, with no problems
khager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #11
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithert View Post
I don't fully understand
well in that case Iīd just use what the manufacturer of that engine recommends, simple as that. (No offence.)
__________________
Countries ridden • FIN • SWE • NOR • DK • EE • LV • LT • POL • SK • HU • RO • BG • GR • IT • AT • DE • CZ • CH • SMR • LIE • NL • BE • FR • AND • ES • GBR • LUX • SI • HR • BIH • SRB • MK • TR • IR • PAK • IND • TH • KH • LA • MY • ID • AUS • CR • USA • ZA • LS • SWZ • MZ • NA • BW • ZM • ZW
Pecha72 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:51 AM   #12
Anonawesome
Scenic Rider
 
Anonawesome's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Central OH
Oddometer: 800
So, you want the oil to be thicker in colder temps? Seems to me like you would want it to be the other way around. Not an oil expert, just looking to learn.
__________________
'90 DR350S

-"I wouldn't trade one stupid decision for another five years of life."
Anonawesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 10:20 AM   #13
C/1/509
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Oddometer: 1,614
Too thin for what?
C/1/509 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #14
k-moe
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Oddometer: 1,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerphile View Post
The engineers who built the two motorcycles and know the materials and clearances and probably did a lot of testing tell you what weight and spec of oil to use. So your plan is to disregard their advice and ask a bunch of people with different motorcycles and likely no credentials or testing done on your particular machines what weight oil you should use.

Hmmm. RTFM comes to mind.
Would you happen to know where I can find S.A.E. 30 weight Husky brand motor oil (non detergent)? I don't want to run my machine without using what the manual calls for.



All oil questions should be forwarded here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
k-moe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 11:48 AM   #15
davek181
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 631
From the oil studies I have read, the major problems with motorcycles and oil is the transmission and clutch sharing the engine oil. The friction reducers in car oil can poison your clutch disks and cause slippage. (happened to me)

The other factor of the transmission gears in the engine oil causes a shear factor that you don't see in engines alone. The oil will eventually get sheared to it's lower or base level viscosity. So if you start with 15w/40, you end up with 15w. That is the sole reason I have not gone to 5w/40 Rotella, or 0w/40 Mobil 1.
davek181 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014