ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-16-2013, 07:26 AM   #46
mikem9 OP
Wanderer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: North Georgia
Oddometer: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwpa View Post
My point is that it's extremely hypocrytical to engage in a behavior you apparently enjoy while looking to deny that same pleasure from your child. I'm not implying you won't worry about your child, but worry is what you sign up for as a parent. If you are serious here, sell the bike and retire the gear, but don't ride while trying to tell your kids it's too dangerous for them.
I've already posted this, but will reiterate - that is why I posted this topic. I'm in the middle of a decision. I'll decide either to keep the street bike and fully embrace the street side with them, or sell the thing to make a statement. Haven't decided yet. I bring it up here on Advrider because this is kind of like sitting around a fire having a discussion with a bunch of other enthusiasts - good place to put stuff out there for discussion.
mikem9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:39 AM   #47
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,214
My daughter put me in the same conundrum. In the end we figured out it would be better to have her learn to ride responsibly and carefully like she drives a car, than have her get on the back of Joe the Dumb Shit's bike who can't ride for shit, goes as fast as his GSZX!(1900POS will go, gives her no gear and gets her killed or maimed. She has ridden with me some and did some dirt riding but never really got into it. If she decides to later that's up to her, she's a big girl.
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:46 AM   #48
mikem9 OP
Wanderer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: North Georgia
Oddometer: 1,212
Regarding safety decisions and not trying to over protect kids. I totally get that. We engage in all kinds of potentially dangerous activities as a family and they are given a good bit of freedom. It's really a question of where we draw those lines and I was wondering if others here have dealt with the same issues.

I used to be in a business where we had to use some of these facts. Here is a close estimate of the facts from memory:

Car crashes are the number 1 cause of fatalities among teens to early 20's. If I recall correctly - More than all the other causes combined. In the first year of driving a car, a driver has a 50% probability of being in a crash of some sort. (Yes, 50%!) During the teen years, there is a 3X greater chance of being in a crash or fatality vs. all other years of drivers combined.

While driving a motorcycle, statistically speaking, you are 16 - 36 times more likely to die in a crash vs. driving a car, depending on the data you are looking at. So, if you put those two groups of statistics together, the risk rates are very high. Not trying to be an alarmist, but these are the facts.

I fully realize that we can't insulate them, and they will eventually make their own decisions. But, in many cases, we can influence them. Right now, I'm 50/50 on which direction to take with the issue.

Thoughts on the subject appreciated.
mikem9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 07:52 AM   #49
Earth Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Oddometer: 2,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Half of that is because most of college is bullshit.
I work with at-risk college students and I've never heard of a single person dropping out for that reason.
Earth Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:00 AM   #50
Earth Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Oddometer: 2,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
Thoughts on the subject appreciated.
I don't think it matters at all. If they want to ride, when they turn 18, they will. Even if you quit now for safety reasons you still used to do it until you were well older than them.
Earth Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:04 AM   #51
Jedl
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: New England
Oddometer: 102
Before my kids were born I was involved in what many people would describe as dangerous sports - street riding, rock climbing, mountaineering, etc. Once they were born we naturally included them in those activities. As a father, I always sought to expose my children to potentially dangerous activities in safe ways. It was important to me that they grew up with a healthy fear of what could happen when things go wrong. And know how to use equipment and safety devices to do dangerous things safely.

I've taught my kids about gun safety & shooting, sea kayaking, riding, technical climbing, mountaineering, etc. We started when they were young enough to listen and obey. We continued as long as they showed interest. I believe my children (now all 25-30) are safer because they learned about these potentially dangerous activities in a safe way, fully cognizant of the dire nature of the hazards and aware of the techniques and tools available to eliminate or at least mitigate the hazards.

That being said, I would not push anyone towards any dangerous activity, riding included. I've been riding since I was 16 (now 58) and barely survived my early years on a street bike. I don't regret the experience, but I wouldn't want my children taking those risks. I wouldn't stop them, but I'd use all my influence to educate them and teach them to avoid the hazards and survive the inevitable crashes.

Now that I'm a new grandfather, I have to consider how I will handle these issues with my grandson, when and if he shows interest in these things. It's a tough call either way.

Good luck,
Jedl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #52
mikem9 OP
Wanderer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: North Georgia
Oddometer: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
I don't think it matters at all. If they want to ride, when they turn 18, they will. Even if you quit now for safety reasons you still used to do it until you were well older than them.
Yes, but my current discussion with them is that I rode dirt bikes (some racing) for 35+ years before ever getting on a street bike. I was in my 40's before I got my first street bike.
mikem9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:11 AM   #53
mikem9 OP
Wanderer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: North Georgia
Oddometer: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedl View Post
Before my kids were born I was involved in what many people would describe as dangerous sports - street riding, rock climbing, mountaineering, etc. Once they were born we naturally included them in those activities. As a father, I always sought to expose my children to potentially dangerous activities in safe ways. It was important to me that they grew up with a healthy fear of what could happen when things go wrong. And know how to use equipment and safety devices to do dangerous things safely.

I've taught my kids about gun safety & shooting, sea kayaking, riding, technical climbing, mountaineering, etc. We started when they were young enough to listen and obey. We continued as long as they showed interest. I believe my children (now all 25-30) are safer because they learned about these potentially dangerous activities in a safe way, fully cognizant of the dire nature of the hazards and aware of the techniques and tools available to eliminate or at least mitigate the hazards.

That being said, I would not push anyone towards any dangerous activity, riding included. I've been riding since I was 16 (now 58) and barely survived my early years on a street bike. I don't regret the experience, but I wouldn't want my children taking those risks. I wouldn't stop them, but I'd use all my influence to educate them and teach them to avoid the hazards and survive the inevitable crashes.

Now that I'm a new grandfather, I have to consider how I will handle these issues with my grandson, when and if he shows interest in these things. It's a tough call either way.

Good luck,
Good discussion Jedi.
mikem9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:16 AM   #54
oughtsix
Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Oddometer: 89
I was 19 when I drug home a 1983 Honda CX650 custom from behind a friends house. I think my parents thought I'd never get it running because half of it was on the trialer and the other half in the back of my truck; but I was home from college for the summer and had been working full time so I put a little money into the thing and got it to run very respectably. My mom was less than thrilled and my dad kept it hid pretty well. I had never had a dirt bike, and this 650 was honestly the first motorcycle I had even been on. I started riding it around the back roads and in the pastures (dual sport CX650!) to get used to it, and eventually worked up to riding it into town (Shreveport, LA; a fiar sized city). Got my endorsement (a joke), had some close calls that taught me about the dangers of being on two wheels and then sold it when it broke and I was out of money to throw at it.

I tell that story to say that you know your kids better than I or we do. If they want to rid eon the street, are fully invested in the idea then teach them, If they are ambivalent or chilly to the idea, let it rest. Full commitment is 100% required for safety in traffic. They have dirt experience, so the mechanics of riding should be firmly in place, therefore I think the most maturing experience for them is to be shown how to ride on the street in a safe and rational way, if they are interested. Yes there are risks, but they are far lower than for someone like me who just took to the road with no guidance at all. Plus I think if you remove from MC crash stats, all the low mile/year riders, drunk riders, and those with significant dirt experience, you are left with a much lower risk overall. Just remember that statistics are great for describing data, but mean nothing for the individual.
oughtsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:25 AM   #55
SxyRdr
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Bealeton, VA
Oddometer: 405
I read a few responses, skimmed a few responses.


My question to OP is:
If you're concerned about them riding on the street, why would you try to influence them to ride on the street? Did you just choose the wrong wording or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?


My personal opinion:
Each and every child is different. I have 2 boys: 21 and 16. They couldn't be anymore different from each other in personalities. There's no way in the world I'd trust the 21 y/o on a motorcycle on the street without any kind of training at all whatsoever. Even if he had training, I'd still want lots and lots of mentoring with him.

Donovan is the 16 y/o. Some of you probably know of him. He started riding when he was 4. Started racing hare scrambles when he was 7 (did 2 years of GNCC in addition to our local VA series). Got into supermoto when he was 9ish. He's probably got more seat time than a lot of people on this forum. He started riding with us on the street around age 6 as a passenger. He has natural talent. Heck, how many people would let an 11 y/o kid hop on their DRZ440SM at the sumo track for a few laps? Or how about a KTM 525? There was no way we were going to be hypocrites and tell him he could not ride on the street. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. Hubby is looking forward to a cross country trip with his son.

He just became legally licensed in Sept. And yes, he did take the BRC even though we knew he knew how to ride (insurance discount). When he was on a learner's for the street (both bike and car), yes, he made a couple of minor judgement mistakes (no accidents). But he learned from them. He knows the importance of gear... of GOOD gear. This is an image that I will never forget for the rest of my life... Donovan at 12, gear cut off and strapped to a backboard after a wreck where he lost feeling in his lower body.

The story:
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=60

I just ask that he keep me informed of his whereabouts when out on his V-Strom 650 (which, btw, is the 2nd street bike he's purchased because he's been employed since he was 14 and has worked hard to buy a bike).




TLDR: I will not give up riding and I will not be a hypocrite. He wants to ride. I trust him to be a good rider. Yes, I will worry. I will always worry. The only thing I ask is that when he's on the bike and I or his dad are not with him, that he texts me when he gets where he's going and when he leaves where he's at.


Good luck with whatever decision you make.



PS, he took my CBR1000RR this morning to run an errand for me, that's how trustworthy he is. Progressive allowed us to say he's got 12 years of experience. I am truly truly shocked... our total insurance (full coverage) for a CBR1kRR, V-Strom 650 and BMW R12RT with a 16 y/o boy on the policy comes to a whopping $1006 a year.
__________________
Helen
Mom of Donovan,
a GNCC and VCHSS racer
SxyRdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:26 AM   #56
sieg
Beastly Adventurer
 
sieg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Southern Illinois USA
Oddometer: 2,646
mikem9, let your son ride if he wants, and is capable, some of our best times were our riding vacations together.
My wife and I have rode from a young age and still do, dirt, street, and quads. Our son started riding at 3, racing at 4. MX, TT, hare scramble and flat track. He always showed good common sense and ability. He was an excellent rider by the time he was 16, you learn a lot on a race track So we had no problem getting him a CBR600F4I for his 16th birthday, then heading to Deals Gap the next day.
It depends on the person, if he's a daredevil and show off I'd be concerned to let him have a car or bike. But if he can ride well and has a good head no problem.




(There is a difference between being a fool and being proficient)
__________________
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.
Current bikes F800GS-EXCF350-Versys-690R-RZ350
sieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:26 AM   #57
Earth Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Oddometer: 2,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
Yes, but my current discussion with them is that I rode dirt bikes (some racing) for 35+ years before ever getting on a street bike. I was in my 40's before I got my first street bike.
They're still going to do whatever they want as soon as they're able.
Earth Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:28 AM   #58
SxyRdr
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Bealeton, VA
Oddometer: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedl View Post
Now that I'm a new grandfather, I have to consider how I will handle these issues with my grandson, when and if he shows interest in these things. It's a tough call either way.
Grandchildren shouldn't be in the near future for us but...

If my grandchild (male or female ) shows an interest in being on a motorcycle, then I'm going to support that as much as I can, with deference to the parents, of course. But I can pretty much guarantee that if it's Donovan's kids, they will be on little 50cc dirt bikes ASAP.
__________________
Helen
Mom of Donovan,
a GNCC and VCHSS racer
SxyRdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #59
nevermind
sLOW Rider
 
nevermind's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Lost then Found
Oddometer: 2,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
If you don't want your kids to ride street , then YOU shouldn't either. You're being a hypocrit.
You must be 16 with a brand new license and want your folks to buy you a street bike.

Just so ya know, young joey, addults can USUALLY make better decisions than yutes. That keeps most of 'em alive on the dangerous roadways. Kids need a bit more seasoning until they're ready to assume that risk.
nevermind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:36 AM   #60
L84dinr
Timing is Everything
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 11
risky business...

Raising childrens these days is risky business. I'm 52 and have three children. They sure have grown up faster than me n my friends, or so it seems.
Neither of my girls have shown any interest in motorcycles. My oldest (17) wont even get on the back of the buell with me. Middle daughter (15) will ride with me. If either wanted too ride I would provide them with a small displacment bike and take them riding every chance i could. MSF would be mandatory. "I" would rather help them learn, then "learn" on their own with some person who might be ignorant of motorcycling.

My son (11) wants to race. He has participated in a couple of races for the past couple of seasons racing his XR50 with TMGP here in D/FW Houston Texas area. I feel like it is a great way to learn to ride motorcycles, although i am nervous when he is out there... Cant raise the boy in a bubble. And this way I know that he is learning to ride in a safe environment. Plus he is learning the limits of tires, brakes, and most important, his own limits.

BTW, both my daughters have ridden horses english style in competition. Middle daughter fell and was knocked out. While wearing the correct equipment. Oldest daughter fell off monkey bars and had knee surgery at the age of 11. The boy fell this summer at camp and broke his elbow. Damn motorcycles, no wait...
SHit happens, be prepared mentally and physically.
L84dinr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014