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Old 10-21-2013, 06:53 PM   #106
Snapper
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Hypocrite here... "Do as I say, not as I do."
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:17 AM   #107
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Anyone ever hit a deer while riding dirt? Just curious. I almost got mowed down by one on my mountain bike once.
I hit a wild pig while on my mountain bike. He squealed and ran; I laid there and groaned.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:24 AM   #108
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I have 3, now grown, kids; 2 of them ride.
My oldest boy doesn't, and shouldn't... he is too abrupt with everything to be a good rider (and now his wife would put her foot down anyway).
The younger boy rides (Speed Triple). I worried about him because he is quite capable of pushing the limits, though he has great control.
My daughter (Buell XB9s) is also a very good rider (the lower levels of testosterone are a real help here).
With both, I find I spend more time worrying about other drivers than about their own skills.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:45 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
In my opinion, nothing helps develop riding skills on the street, more than becoming a proficient dirt rider. The only street riders that seem to disagree with this, are the ones that have never ridden on dirt. One of the most important skills you develop in the dirt, is getting a feel for traction, learning what the tires are doing. If you can make it through se adobe snot mud that has no traction whatsoever of road, pretty much you can handle anything on the street. Whether its traction in turns, or starting and stopping on side slopes, or taking off and braking, it all translates over to the street.
This. I grew up in the dirt, and rode like an idiot. I paid for it quite a bit with some broken bones and bikes, but learned an incredible amount as well. Every ride was a race with the boys and I, and I've had enough 'OH SHIT' moments to not panic anymore. One instance that stands out in my mind is coming up to a 90degree bend in a fire road, 4th gear on my CR250 at 14. I target fixated on the concrete drain located just off apex, locked up the rear wheel and high-sided off the road. I had decent gear on, but the lifesavers were no traffic and a nice, muddy median to absorb my stupidity. It was much safer to make that mistake off road as a noob than on road. Loss of traction on the street, the few times its occurred, doesn't even get my heartbeat up. It's instinctual to react calmly now. Same when something pops out, a car cuts a corner or theres gravel halfway through a bend, etc. etc. I've encountered those issues so often off road, on a pissed off two smoke with bald tires, that for the most part, the street's a breeze. Most importantly, however, I've learned that excess speed is a bitch. For the most part, I ride much slower than I think I would had I not gotten the dirt experience, especially with the triple digit horsepower my VFR can deliver quickly to the rear wheel. I also know that I'm still far from a world class rider and ride accordingly. I guess my point is that when it comes time for kids, I'll push the dirt riding.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #110
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Great debate and a topic that I have been thinking about since my children were born. They are still young and I have lots of time to figure out my stance on this issue but I think the subject is more complicated than simply dirt vs. street.

For me there are two issues at play here:

1. Learning how to operate a vehicle

2. Learning the 'rules of the road'.

While dirt riding may provide a safer environment to learn how to operate a motorcycle, it doesn't do anything to improve their understanding of how shitty people drive on the street, how to anticipate their douchebaggery, how to spot a dangerous texting fucktard, etc.

For those reasons I think a couple years of cage time on the roads is an absolute must before I would want to see my kids street riding.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #111
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I think about this myself and I dont have kids yet. Personally, I would rather a young adult wait until at least 22 before they start to ride on the street. Its not because I think they cant handle it- I think they need experience dealing with idiots in a cage first so that they can at least use anticipation to keep them alive on a motorcycle.

FWIW, I asked my dad when I was 14 what he thought about me riding a motorcycle. He said "nah, theyre too dangerous now with all the idiots on the road." He died a year later, and I bought my first motorcycle at 18.

He rode motorcycles all through his late 20s into his 40s. I know the dangers ive faced on a bike, and thinking of my own kid facing them scares the shit out of me. I think it was the same deal with my dad..
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:18 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by xhungus View Post
Great debate and a topic that I have been thinking about since my children were born. They are still young and I have lots of time to figure out my stance on this issue but I think the subject is more complicated than simply dirt vs. street.

For me there are two issues at play here:

1. Learning how to operate a vehicle

2. Learning the 'rules of the road'.

While dirt riding may provide a safer environment to learn how to operate a motorcycle, it doesn't do anything to improve their understanding of how shitty people drive on the street...........

For those reasons I think a couple years of cage time on the roads is an absolute must before I would want to see my kids street riding.
Good points!

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Old 10-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #113
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There is reason to be concerned. Street riding is about avoiding being hit or hitting things. Dirt riding is about navigating terrain and staying upright while doing it. We all remember when we turned 16 and got our drivers licenses. We did foolish things. He had fender benders. A fender bender on a motorcycle can kill you.
Street riding is no different than dirt really, except the trees are all moving and want to kill you.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by xhungus View Post
Great debate and a topic that I have been thinking about since my children were born. They are still young and I have lots of time to figure out my stance on this issue but I think the subject is more complicated than simply dirt vs. street.

For me there are two issues at play here:

1. Learning how to operate a vehicle

2. Learning the 'rules of the road'.

While dirt riding may provide a safer environment to learn how to operate a motorcycle, it doesn't do anything to improve their understanding of how shitty people drive on the street, how to anticipate their douchebaggery, how to spot a dangerous texting fucktard, etc.

For those reasons I think a couple years of cage time on the roads is an absolute must before I would want to see my kids street riding.

I like that approach!
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:27 PM   #115
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A timely topic

Interesting that my first post should be on a topic which I first contemplated 14 years ago in anticipation of my first child. I thought the discussion years later would come down to making the promise that I would never ride again if my kid didn't get on a bike. The good news is both my children are girls and lower levels of testosterone and more sensibility should serve them well in the years ahead.

There have been some very thoughtful discourse thus far but I think Mike is looking for what I'm about to say, but first a little intro. I've been riding without breaks for 39 years starting in street/dirt but mostly street, I am obsessed with riding to the point of suffering a manly version of PMS if it's a beautiful day and I can't get on the bike. Being French, my wife is fine with this but her patience is growing thinner and since having the kids she's been on the bike only 10 times (when we met I didn't have a car so she froze her a-- many a winter day). Just decided to get back in the dirt with the purchase of a Husky TE449 and unbeknownst to my wife bought our 4 year old a CRF50, with training wheels. I still prefer the street over dirt.

The question, what if? What if your child lost their life? How could a parent live with themselves? How could you get that gut-wrenching feeling to go away? How can you look your wife, or all your friends who tried to convince you to give up riding in the face? How could you look your mother in the face, who in my case when I departed on the bike would say,"Be careful, please don't make me cry". HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF KNOWING THAT IN ALL LIKELIHOOD YOUR CHILD WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT IF THEY NEVER SAW YOU ENGAGED IN THIS PASSION? What would you do? How would you live? I wish that no one should ever have to answer these questions.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by drmasis View Post
Interesting that my first post should be on a topic which I first contemplated 14 years ago in anticipation of my first child. I thought the discussion years later would come down to making the promise that I would never ride again if my kid didn't get on a bike. The good news is both my children are girls and lower levels of testosterone and more sensibility should serve them well in the years ahead.

There have been some very thoughtful discourse thus far but I think Mike is looking for what I'm about to say, but first a little intro. I've been riding without breaks for 39 years starting in street/dirt but mostly street, I am obsessed with riding to the point of suffering a manly version of PMS if it's a beautiful day and I can't get on the bike. Being French, my wife is fine with this but her patience is growing thinner and since having the kids she's been on the bike only 10 times (when we met I didn't have a car so she froze her a-- many a winter day). Just decided to get back in the dirt with the purchase of a Husky TE449 and unbeknownst to my wife bought our 4 year old a CRF50, with training wheels. I still prefer the street over dirt.

The question, what if? What if your child lost their life? How could a parent live with themselves? How could you get that gut-wrenching feeling to go away? How can you look your wife, or all your friends who tried to convince you to give up riding in the face? How could you look your mother in the face, who in my case when I departed on the bike would say,"Be careful, please don't make me cry". HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF KNOWING THAT IN ALL LIKELIHOOD YOUR CHILD WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT IF THEY NEVER SAW YOU ENGAGED IN THIS PASSION? What would you do? How would you live? I wish that no one should ever have to answer these questions.
I guess you'd better just lock yourself and the family in the basement. You never know what could happen outside in the world.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #117
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I guess you'd better just lock yourself and the family in the basement. You never know what could happen outside in the world.
One step ahead of you, we come out from the cellar for a 1/2 hr everyday for some fresh air and to stretch our legs
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:37 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by drmasis View Post
The question, what if? What if your child lost their life? How could a parent live with themselves? How could you get that gut-wrenching feeling to go away? How can you look your wife, or all your friends who tried to convince you to give up riding in the face? How could you look your mother in the face, who in my case when I departed on the bike would say,"Be careful, please don't make me cry". HOW COULD YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF KNOWING THAT IN ALL LIKELIHOOD YOUR CHILD WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN A MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT IF THEY NEVER SAW YOU ENGAGED IN THIS PASSION? What would you do? How would you live? I wish that no one should ever have to answer these questions.
Your thinking is FLAWED. Have you seen how some kids look at you in the bike in complete awe from the backseat of a car? It's not all of them, it's just some kids that while they are trapped in that back seat look at motorcycles like the greatest thing on earth.

Those will be riders, it doesn't matter if their parents ride or not, it doesn't make a difference if their parents allow them to ride or not, they will ride.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:33 PM   #119
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BUT , they're better off starting out young.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #120
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I do agree with that point about starting young...

I think absolute best chance you can give your kids on 2 wheels is:

1. Start them on dirt young.
2. Give them a few years in a cage to learn the rules of the road.
3. Around 18 years old or so give them the green light for street riding.

...18 also happens to be the legal drinking age around here but that's a whole 'nother conversation
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