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Old 10-17-2013, 12:15 PM   #16
wpbarlow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post
...If the video were to say something like'this new 1190 is heavier, has a bunch more electronic doodads and more power...and is about as good a dual sport as before, perhaps better on road while giving up some off pavement capability',...
My take is that's pretty much exactly what the video says, except that there's no "perhaps better on road" equivocation : they say (as does every other report I've read/heard) the 1190 is clearly superior on pavement.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:33 PM   #17
Frog uk
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Hmmmmm,, people confuse faster and better, just because it's faster don't make it better, if it did I'd be on an Aprilia RSV4R, because that's faster than an 1190 so it must be better.

The real question for me is,,,,, is the 1190 10,000/$15,000 better than my 950? Faster maybe, but better?

I really cannot see it, even if it had 200HP.

As for this video,well, pretty worthless as far as any sort of meaning full comparison goes.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #18
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Leavenworth, WA

Wow, I watched this video review and was surprised to see that it was filmed right up the road from my house. I ride my 990 and my mountain bike there all the time. Small world.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Frog uk View Post
Hmmmmm,, people confuse faster and better, just because it's faster don't make it better, if it did I'd be on an Aprilia RSV4R, because that's faster than an 1190 so it must be better.

The real question for me is,,,,, is the 1190 10,000/$15,000 better than my 950? Faster maybe, but better?

I really cannot see it, even if it had 200HP.

As for this video,well, pretty worthless as far as any sort of meaning full comparison goes.

I really like my 990, so I have the same question re how much better is the 1190 (probably standard version) for how much additional money? It's probably a $5-7k question for me.

I admit the TC and suspension and brake improvements (especially what the US will be getting) mean quite a lot to me. The extra range and power is a plus, but not that critical to me. I prefer the way the 990 looks, and I already have a 19/17 wheel setup along with the stock 21/18.

Is what I like worth the extra money? I guess I won't be able to answer that question until after riding the 1190. The single thing I like best about the 990 (and previous 2004 950S I had) is that special feeling I get riding it. Not very technical or descriptive I know, but that's what's most important to me. And I suspect that every 9x0 owner will have to take their own ride to make their own decision.

If the 1190 provides that feeling I'll probably get one. I've found that over the long term you forget about the money and remember the bike.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by windblown101 View Post
Was anyone else surprised by the way the exhaust from the front cylinder got routed on the 1190? I wouldn't have expected them to route it low and below/alongside the motor. That exact same routing has been problematic on my SM-T when things get rocky.
Well, it's a street bike, so no surprise.
The more I check the 1190 (as I'm looking into getting one), the more obvious it becomes how completely different the 1190 and the 950 were designed.
The 950 is a former rally bike turned adventure-tourer. Developed with rally pilots, in rally competitions. *Every* aspect of it is influenced by the thought that this bike would also go offroad: the tanks, the fairings, the air intake, the exhausts, the seat.

My guess is that the 9*0 series, while succesful, was not as successful as KTM hoped.

So the 1190 was designed in the complete opposite way: focus groups, big dev team, street focus to get a nice, likeable street bike that can also do offroad. If you think about it, there is NO aspect of 1190 that seems to be conceived with offroad in mind: the air intakes, the exhaust, the top-heavy single tank, the seat, all those scream street. The traction control was developed with a MotoGP (or superbike?) pilot.
Of course, being a KTM, their offroad-capable street bike is still more capable than others, but it's pretty clear for me that this wasn't their focus at all.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:40 PM   #21
Terence FFM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragos View Post
Well, it's a street bike, so no surprise.
The more I check the 1190 (as I'm looking into getting one), the more obvious it becomes how completely different the 1190 and the 950 were designed.
The 950 is a former rally bike turned adventure-tourer. Developed with rally pilots, in rally competitions. *Every* aspect of it is influenced by the thought that this bike would also go offroad: the tanks, the fairings, the air intake, the exhausts, the seat.

My guess is that the 9*0 series, while succesful, was not as successful as KTM hoped.

So the 1190 was designed in the complete opposite way: focus groups, big dev team, street focus to get a nice, likeable street bike that can also do offroad. If you think about it, there is NO aspect of 1190 that seems to be conceived with offroad in mind: the air intakes, the exhaust, the top-heavy single tank, the seat, all those scream street. The traction control was developed with a MotoGP (or superbike?) pilot.
Of course, being a KTM, their offroad-capable street bike is still more capable than others, but it's pretty clear for me that this wasn't their focus at all.
Absolutely right.

KTM is a business with the sole intention of selling bikes and the fact is that this recipe sells better than the 950/990 recipe. If I were a share holder, I would applaud this development. As it is, I will continue riding and loving my 990 knowing I am the limiting factor in how well/fast I get from "A" to "B" on or off road, and not the bike.

I don't doubt that the 1190's superior throttle response would help me off road, but a 400 or better yet 350 pound two cylinder adventure bike with more fly wheel than a 690R would help me more. And for me that is the first and only 990 alternative I can see myself trading my 990 for, as much as I like the 1190.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragos View Post
Well, it's a street bike, so no surprise.
The more I check the 1190 (as I'm looking into getting one), the more obvious it becomes how completely different the 1190 and the 950 were designed.
The 950 is a former rally bike turned adventure-tourer. Developed with rally pilots, in rally competitions. *Every* aspect of it is influenced by the thought that this bike would also go offroad: the tanks, the fairings, the air intake, the exhausts, the seat.

My guess is that the 9*0 series, while succesful, was not as successful as KTM hoped.

So the 1190 was designed in the complete opposite way: focus groups, big dev team, street focus to get a nice, likeable street bike that can also do offroad. If you think about it, there is NO aspect of 1190 that seems to be conceived with offroad in mind: the air intakes, the exhaust, the top-heavy single tank, the seat, all those scream street. The traction control was developed with a MotoGP (or superbike?) pilot.
Of course, being a KTM, their offroad-capable street bike is still more capable than others, but it's pretty clear for me that this wasn't their focus at all.
I think the 1190 has been designed a different way, but i don't know if i agree that is wasn't thought out to be a dirt bike. I loved my 950, and i agree it was a rally bike by design first and foremost, but it was also designed to be KTM's first road bike. And it need tweaking to improve, as we all know

My 1190R is a heap better a road bike, its rapid, super smooth on the throttle, and the electronics just make the whole thing safer. The brakes are superb, and the ones on my 950 weren't as good as they could have been (a few track days didn't help mind!!) The ABS isn't intrusive at all, the way it should be, and the offroad setting works really well

Sure, it need some tweaks as well. The 1190 needs a decent sump guard, but who was ever happy with the 950 sump guard?? The 950 has lots of exposed fragile bits behind it that need protected. The exhausts on the 950 were the first thing we all changed as well, many going to single silencers for the rally look. I am sure there will be slimmer systems for the 1190, i cant wait to get rid of the cat in the main pipe

I find the suspension pretty good on the 1190, a few adjustments and it seems fine. My 950 had the softest front ever for the size of the bike (i resprung them very quickly), so i feel i have stepped forwards with the new bike.

I have taken my 1190 offroad, not muddy hills, but some pretty rough trails and forestry tracks. These are roads i drove with the 950 and i think the 1190 was every bit as good, maybe even better due to the smoothness of the throttle and electronics. It was great fun and very confidence inspiring

The single tank isnt a problem, i haven't felt any difference with the tank full, just like my 950. But i must admit i dont miss twin caps!!

I think this whole subject is a matter of opinion, i loved my 950 to bits, it wasn't a perfect motorcycle, but i never found anything that gave me a reason to change it. However i will say i think i love my 1190R even more. Sure, its not a perfect motorcycle either, but its a great bike and i am sure i will love tweaking it to make it even better.

I think no matter if its a 950, 950 or an 1190 what we have is the best big dual sports of their generation, and i hope KTM have a big success on their hands, enabling them to grow and give us even more choice. Like i say, not perfect out the box, but i wouldn't have anything else in my garage!!
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by NOTCH 8 View Post
2:31, some ugly welds.
Seriously, my 5yr old can weld better that.
hahahaha..

too bad they don't produce parts as well as they produce a video.....
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:24 PM   #24
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I'm sure a vendor that is interested in selling a new product line has nothing to do with the outcome.

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Old 10-17-2013, 11:08 PM   #25
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My 990 was a better off-road bike than I was an off-road rider.

I'm sure the 1190R will be too.

I can't wait for it to hit the States.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #26
imeny
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Great review

And he also speaks about the comparison with the 990.

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Old 10-18-2013, 11:58 AM   #27
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Much more to the point and useful than the Touratech thing.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:25 AM   #28
Sporting Wood
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+1, far better. Honesty counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTCH 8 View Post
2:31, some ugly welds.
Seriously, my 5yr old can weld better that.
Looks like they are square cutting the tubes and filling the gaps with MIG wire. Ugly!
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by NOTCH 8 View Post
2:31, some ugly welds.
Seriously, my 5yr old can weld better that.
Being a pipe welder i had to check them out, look pretty solid....
Maybe the paint is structural paint.....
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPiA View Post
The 1190 has extra crash bars but I couldn't find them on the Touratech site.

Are they available?
yeah i just had a look too...
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