ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-23-2013, 10:11 AM   #16
Swashbuckler OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Swashbuckler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Collins
Oddometer: 350
So from what i've been reading. My new wiring harness is built to power the headlight. I can disconnect the headlight from the factory harness and wire it to the new tusk harness. This will leave me an open power source from the factory harness that I could use to power my heated grips and gps? Should I take this source and connect it to something like this http://www.fuzeblocks.com? Then I can run my gps and heated grips off of the fuzeblock?
__________________
Current Bike: 2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure

Previous Bikes: 2010 KTM 690 Enduro R / 2009 F800GS / 2010 Triumph Daytona / 2004 CRF450R - Supermoto / 2007 GSXR 750 / 1991 Yamaha XJ600 Secca II
Swashbuckler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 11:59 AM   #17
flemsmith
lurk
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Apache Junction, Az
Oddometer: 483
Draw your own schematic....

The problem with asking us specifics on components we aren't familiar with is, frankly, most of us are too lazy to do the research it would take to give you an expert answer.

I was trained as a EE, and when I wire a bike, or make changes to a bike's wiring to add accessories, the only way I can do it confidently is to first draw my own schematic with proper wire colors, component connections and functions, (like that relay in the light circuit above) and in some cases wire sizes. I'm seldom able to just look at a factory schematic and follow what I need, because there are so many other things going on.

E=IR. Using a multimeter should lead you to understanding that. Voltage = current x resistance. In DC circuits, you don't typically have to worry about frequency, inductors, capacitors, or complex impedances, so it's much easier than analyzing an AC circuit. But you do have to understand the difference between those three things and how to measure each. There are books, trouble is, most of us no longer have any basic DC theory books. When people talk about poor grounds, they are really saying the resistance back to the battery with a remote ground connection is too high, so the current is too low. Sorry if I'm not much help, but it's really a learning process.
flemsmith is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #18
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by aposaric View Post
just so people don't get unnecessarily confused, the statement on that page that "All power for all systems on a motorcycle comes directly from the battery. The alternator is only used to charge the battery and prevent it from becoming depleted during normal use." is not true on many bikes.

on many bikes a lot of stuff is powered directly by the alternator/stator (and uses AC rather than DC).
LittleRedToyota is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 01:44 PM   #19
TeneRay
2>4
 
TeneRay's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Ohio
Oddometer: 1,596
If you're trying to learn on what I'm trying to learn, then this is a pretty good book.

I took an entry course in electronics and circuits while in college but that was ages ago. Sold the books due to finances. I found this in B&N for $40. I read one of those Dummy books prior to this one and that was junk.

Usually I'll follow up a questionable issue on YouTube to help explain the subject. Works so far.
TeneRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #20
troidus
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 11,382
One other piece is whether the alternator has sufficient output to handle all of the proposed loads. You may wire everything correctly and still run the battery flat.
troidus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 12:50 AM   #21
doxiedog
Studly Adventurer
 
doxiedog's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: CENTRAL VALLEY, CALIF.
Oddometer: 826
Tell ya what i know.
If you touch two wires togeather and they spark,
It"s now a fuse problem. :)
__________________
Snot nosed 68 yr.old kid.
doxiedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 01:15 AM   #22
jules083
Beastly Adventurer
 
jules083's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Richmond, Ohio
Oddometer: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by doxiedog View Post
Tell ya what i know.
If you touch two wires togeather and they spark,
It"s now a fuse problem. :)
I've done that to 'check for power' in my younger days, then wondered why it quit working.

OP, I started a thread a few months age titled 'post your wiring tips and tricks'. I can't link from my phone, but if you search for it there is some excellent information in that thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
jules083 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #23
Gripsteruser
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 539
Public library should have a copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook.
It's a textbook which has all the theory necessary (and a LOT more!) to be able to design 2 way radios and antennas.

What you want to look at and study are the chapters in the front- voltage, current, resistors, fuses, switches, transformers (ignition coil is a transformer) and measurements.

Don't read outside of those chapters and it won't be scary.

Then start to use your meter to learn about voltage, resistance/continuity.
Measure some things on the bike such as battery voltage while off, battery voltage with ignition on but not running, voltage at idle, voltage at mid RPM. Then check continuity of a fuse or two.
Then pull a relay, examine the diagram on it (if it's that kind - many are) and use the meter to measure whether the contacts are really how they say they are. (this is how you'd find a stuck relay)

I'm trained as an EE* but I started learning this stuff at my Dad's side in the garage as we worked on the very simple systems of 1960's cars.

Bad ground = high resistance (how can you test for this?) Corroded connection at the battery = voltage drop when cranking (how can you test for this?)

Taking a kit product and installing according to directions is good but sometimes the kits are missing something, intended for not-your-situation, don't fit, or need "some user adjustment." That's when you need to actually understand what you're doing and why.

Electrical on bikes is not difficult to understand but it takes some study and practice to have it make sense enough to be able to use it. I find every time I approach a problem I usually learn something new to me.

* I've known EEs who couldn't recognize the battery under the hood of their car. In EE class the people who could identify the components for the lab exercises were licensed ham radio guys whe'd built stuff. (I was one).

Gripsteruser screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 10:22 AM Reason: add aspersions on value of EE degree
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 12:27 PM   #24
Swashbuckler OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Swashbuckler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Collins
Oddometer: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
I've done that to 'check for power' in my younger days, then wondered why it quit working.

OP, I started a thread a few months age titled 'post your wiring tips and tricks'. I can't link from my phone, but if you search for it there is some excellent information in that thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
I did a search prior to this thread hoping to find a thread like the one you made. I knew there had to be something.
__________________
Current Bike: 2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure

Previous Bikes: 2010 KTM 690 Enduro R / 2009 F800GS / 2010 Triumph Daytona / 2004 CRF450R - Supermoto / 2007 GSXR 750 / 1991 Yamaha XJ600 Secca II
Swashbuckler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 12:41 PM   #25
Swashbuckler OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Swashbuckler's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Collins
Oddometer: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
Public library should have a copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook.
It's a textbook which has all the theory necessary (and a LOT more!) to be able to design 2 way radios and antennas.

What you want to look at and study are the chapters in the front- voltage, current, resistors, fuses, switches, transformers (ignition coil is a transformer) and measurements.

Don't read outside of those chapters and it won't be scary.

Then start to use your meter to learn about voltage, resistance/continuity.
Measure some things on the bike such as battery voltage while off, battery voltage with ignition on but not running, voltage at idle, voltage at mid RPM. Then check continuity of a fuse or two.
Then pull a relay, examine the diagram on it (if it's that kind - many are) and use the meter to measure whether the contacts are really how they say they are. (this is how you'd find a stuck relay)

I'm trained as an EE* but I started learning this stuff at my Dad's side in the garage as we worked on the very simple systems of 1960's cars.

Bad ground = high resistance (how can you test for this?) Corroded connection at the battery = voltage drop when cranking (how can you test for this?)

Taking a kit product and installing according to directions is good but sometimes the kits are missing something, intended for not-your-situation, don't fit, or need "some user adjustment." That's when you need to actually understand what you're doing and why.

Electrical on bikes is not difficult to understand but it takes some study and practice to have it make sense enough to be able to use it. I find every time I approach a problem I usually learn something new to me.

* I've known EEs who couldn't recognize the battery under the hood of their car. In EE class the people who could identify the components for the lab exercises were licensed ham radio guys whe'd built stuff. (I was one).

This was what I was looking for. I knew there were books out there and the one you described sounds exactly like what I"m looking for. I want to understand the theory and practice it. Start small at first, learn enough to not burn the bike down hopefully, and go from there.
I picked up digital mulitmeter yesterday, with some simple crimpers and connects. I'm hoping to learn how to use the multimeter this weekend, and hopefully take the headlight from the factory harness and connect it to the new tusk harness that has the wires already built in for it.

Question: Theres 3 wires connecting the headlight to the factory harness right now. Theres 3 wires on the new harness (black, White, Blue)to control the headlight.
o Black Headlight main
o White Low beam
o Dark blue High beam
Why would the factory harness have 3 wires? Remember its a dirtbike so the headlight doesn't have low/high beam and comes on whenever I start the bike. There should be one wire that powers the headlight, and one that grounds? What would the 3rd one be doing? Also does the Black wire listed above as (headlight main) mean its the ground?

***I'm going off the info I've learned from the web and am seeing where my knowledge level is at.
__________________
Current Bike: 2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure

Previous Bikes: 2010 KTM 690 Enduro R / 2009 F800GS / 2010 Triumph Daytona / 2004 CRF450R - Supermoto / 2007 GSXR 750 / 1991 Yamaha XJ600 Secca II
Swashbuckler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 01:07 PM   #26
Gripsteruser
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 539
You'll want to see the book to see if it really helps. The text is somewhat terse so read a sentence at a time and go very slowly to get it. The facts are there but there's not a lot of fluff around to make it a Reader's Digest kind of experience. It's a technical reference.

Multimeter tip - don't try measuring current (Amps, milliamps, microamps).
Just don't put the meter on that setting. Consider it a very, very special measurement that you can't safely do for a very long time. (I blew out a current range on my Dad's multimeter when I was 7 years old because I didn't know what I was doing - was just mimicking actions without knowlege.)

3 wires - I don't know. Could be a common wiring harness for multiple model bikes and the 3rd wire is unused. Or might be some other reason. But you can use your meter to figure it out. With the key off measure continuity to ground for each wire. Should be at least one that reads zero. Then measure when there is voltage on each of the wires. (12 volts or none - choose the right scale; you could also use a 12V test light)
Then, using that knowlege, measure continuity thru the headlight bulb terminals. Use a very low resistance scale. Then think about it and get back to us :-) (makes a great homework problem )
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #27
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,218
Here's a wiring diagram for a CRF450X. Should tell you a lot about the system:

http://www.crf450x.net/2007/02/04/20...ram-schematic/
__________________
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher
ttpete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #28
Gripsteruser
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Here's a wiring diagram for a CRF450X. Should tell you a lot about the system:

http://www.crf450x.net/2007/02/04/20...ram-schematic/

Perfect!
That's a pretty simple diagram and doesn't use complex symbols for the parts.

So Swashbuckler, what's the color of the ground wire on the bike? (start with the easy questions)
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #29
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
Perfect!
So Swashbuckler, what's the color of the ground wire on the bike? (start with the easy questions)
black typically. most things on most dirt bikes are switched on the "ground" side...some references call it the "main".

there isn't really a "ground" on a bike, though people still generally call the "negative" side "ground" (in the home/business/etc. power grid, "ground" literally references a giant rod--or pipes, or something conductive--stuck in the earth...which then completes the circuit back to the generating station). further, electric charge flowing through metal wires actually flows from negative to positive, not the other way around. thus, calling the "ground" "main" instead of "ground" actually makes more sense.

confused yet?

LittleRedToyota screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 02:29 PM
LittleRedToyota is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 06:51 PM   #30
Gripsteruser
Service Monkey
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: N. Colo
Oddometer: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
black typically.
I was hoping he'd look at the schematic for the answer.

Black is typical but not according to the schematic for his bike.

They also use a pictograph terminal lug instead of the ground/earth schematic symbol.
Gripsteruser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014