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Old 06-25-2014, 12:29 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
Meanwhile, back in Wisconsin, EBR is developing a new model specifically for WSBK competition that (hopefully) we'll see next year.
The can barely meet the homologation numbers with the current model. How are they going to produce something else and be legal for WSBK?

I hope they can. I've always liked Erik Buell for putting everything on the line and accomplishing what everyone else just talks about.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:49 PM   #227
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I've always liked Erik Buell for putting everything on the line and accomplishing what everyone else just talks about.
Finishing DFL if they finish at all?
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:51 PM   #228
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Finishing DFL if they finish at all?
Keep'n it real?
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:53 PM   #229
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Buell needs to take "racing" out of the name and just call it "Erik's cool bikes".
Keep'n it real.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:00 PM   #230
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Finishing DFL if they finish at all?
Easy to criticize. However, Buell has raced, built his own racebikes, built his own company (twice) and produced some interesting street bikes. No doubt the WSBK effort is a having a year to forget but in the big picture, he's accomplished a lot more than almost anyone in the motorcycle industry. I have a lot of respect for the risks Erik Buell has taken.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:08 PM   #231
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Easy to criticize. However, Buell has raced, built his own racebikes, built his own company (twice) and produced some interesting street bikes. No doubt the WSBK effort is a having a year to forget but in the big picture, he's accomplished a lot more than almost anyone in the motorcycle industry. I have a lot of respect for the risks Erik Buell has taken.
There is no doubt he has built a loyal following. I have never seen any evidence of success in racing. His "innovative" designs aren't better than the tried and true. I have owned some "interesting" bikes. I would never own a Buell. I applaud those who try. The current effort is more than embarrassing, though.

That said, I wish Aaron Yates was doing a blog on his WSBK experience. He is one of my all time favorite riders and I would love to read his perspective on his experience.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:36 PM   #232
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Buell racing isn't really just Eric Buell. There is Hero money footing the bills. I don't recall the number but it was good sized.
For racing these days you need to be tied to the usual component suspects for support and data. Spec tires fix that part along with wheels, but screw with suspension and brakes and you're on your own.
That front brake maybe one of the issues, but I suspect the motor and the rest are equally as challenging when you only have two bikes to test with. They have said this year is a test. No great expectations. I've heard there are overheating issues. Again more testing in battle.
Tough call. I think choosing riders willing to do the development work that is required and be fast enough to get to the race are tricky calls. Yates never struck me as a particularly insightful rider, but I'm not all that hooked into the paddock or ever was.
Just the usual casual observer. May might have an issue with trying too hard? Or not being used to the tires/motorcycle and getting tossed in the air a bit too often.
Tough job for a racer to be told to ride the thing into the back of the field but don't tear it up.
I'm no fan of Buell bikes. But, I like his work ethic, and his willingness to wander out to the edge and take a look. Try some stuff.
That right there is the bottom line in engineering. Sure we analyze the stuff, but sooner or later you have to cut metal and give it a try and find out yep, the numbers were right or wrong. Or you overlooked some piece you might not have known was there if you hadn't tried.
Without that all you did was write a paper. maybe got some college credit or published in some really obscure magazine or newsletter or now some offbeat blog four people who contribute to read. Two of them understand most of it. The other two have matching lab coats and almost a full drill index.
I think this years success will be not permanently injuring either rider and by the end of the season finally finishing both races with two motorcycles unharmed. Then they can go about working on faster, and better and smarter.

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There is no doubt he has built a loyal following. I have never seen any evidence of success in racing. His "innovative" designs aren't better than the tried and true. I have owned some "interesting" bikes. I would never own a Buell. I applaud those who try. The current effort is more than embarrassing, though.

That said, I wish Aaron Yates was doing a blog on his WSBK experience. He is one of my all time favorite riders and I would love to read his perspective on his experience.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:54 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Mr Head View Post
Buell racing isn't really just Eric Buell. There is Hero money footing the bills. I don't recall the number but it was good sized.
For racing these days you need to be tied to the usual component suspects for support and data. Spec tires fix that part along with wheels, but screw with suspension and brakes and you're on your own.
That front brake maybe one of the issues, but I suspect the motor and the rest are equally as challenging when you only have two bikes to test with. They have said this year is a test. No great expectations. I've heard there are overheating issues. Again more testing in battle.
Tough call. I think choosing riders willing to do the development work that is required and be fast enough to get to the race are tricky calls. Yates never struck me as a particularly insightful rider, but I'm not all that hooked into the paddock or ever was.
Just the usual casual observer. May might have an issue with trying too hard? Or not being used to the tires/motorcycle and getting tossed in the air a bit too often.
Tough job for a racer to be told to ride the thing into the back of the field but don't tear it up.
I'm no fan of Buell bikes. But, I like his work ethic, and his willingness to wander out to the edge and take a look. Try some stuff.
That right there is the bottom line in engineering. Sure we analyze the stuff, but sooner or later you have to cut metal and give it a try and find out yep, the numbers were right or wrong. Or you overlooked some piece you might not have known was there if you hadn't tried.
Without that all you did was write a paper. maybe got some college credit or published in some really obscure magazine or newsletter or now some offbeat blog four people who contribute to read. Two of them understand most of it. The other two have matching lab coats and almost a full drill index.
I think this years success will be not permanently injuring either rider and by the end of the season finally finishing both races with two motorcycles unharmed. Then they can go about working on faster, and better and smarter.
May had a long career on Pirellis before getting factory supported Dunlop rides. Good rider, but not great.

Yates is one of the most naturally talented motorcycle racers ever. Not necessarily the fastest but able to make the motorcycle do things in outrageous fashion that others cannot do or get away with.

I knew some racers that were salaried Buell riders in the AMA Pro Thunder Class. They said the front brake was a hinderance in Pro Thunder, so I am sure it is only worse in WSBK.

I have ridden a few Buells and I strongly disliked them, so maybe I am biased against them. EB seems committed to a few quirky designs that are never going to allow his bikes to be competitve.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:25 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
There is no doubt he has built a loyal following. I have never seen any evidence of success in racing. His "innovative" designs aren't better than the tried and true. I have owned some "interesting" bikes. I would never own a Buell. I applaud those who try. The current effort is more than embarrassing, though.

That said, I wish Aaron Yates was doing a blog on his WSBK experience. He is one of my all time favorite riders and I would love to read his perspective on his experience.
I'll certainly admit Buell/EBR's racing results haven't been that great, but if you've never seen any evidence of success in racing for Buell, you haven't looked. Eslick won the Daytona Sportbike title on a Buell 1125R in 2009, Eslick and May had several podium finishes with the EBR's in AMA Superbike in 2012.
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:37 PM   #235
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Sweet. I inadvertently started a Buell-bashing thread. :facepalm
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:19 PM   #236
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I'd heard once upon a time about that brake. I always thought it was way easier to get going using what everybody else had rather than going it alone. While it is a way to do it, it is not the easy way.
I have never been a big Yates fan. I thought he has that Way of diving in deep when another rider is coming down that ends in tears.
As for tires, My experience with club level Pirelli and Dunlops is limited. Dunlops scared hell out of me after getting used to Pirelli. When I made the switch from Dunlop to Pirelli I was amazed at how they worked. But, then I'm comparing apples to typewriters.

Not to bash the Buell as it is an effort, and at least they are out there testing the waters. Not too many have ever jumped in with both feet fully commited and took home all the hardware.
The effort is clearly toe in the water with these level of riders. Yates on his best day and Yosh Suzuki would maybe get to mid field. But, that's speculation much like the BOAT rants.

I thought the races this past weekend were good races, but not the paint scraping lead changing battles we'd like to see. Still cool to see the double done. I'm not rooting for anybody in particular. I just want to see a lot of racing.

No matter how much I think fuel in the frame or oil in the swinging arm is silly, I think it would be fun to see Yates backing that Buell into turns. I think that will be a while.
He took a pretty big hit breaking his leg a while ago and I have not seen him at his former level of flame.
May seems to be high siding a lot and getting hurt. That makes me think of a guy trying to go fast on something he is not comfortable with and just trying to throw it in there and see how it goes. Hopefully he can get over that before he is beat to paste.
The team need hard data they can go back to Buell with that says change the brakes to Brembo, and give us these motor characteristics. Then they'll be getting somewhere. Right now they are stuck trying to develop a motor at speed.
Lots of folks have tried that and it has never been pretty.
I don't recall seeing the Buell ever on Sunday and Sykes was off the front and away so they were wandering through the field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
May had a long career on Pirellis before getting factory supported Dunlop rides. Good rider, but not great.

Yates is one of the most naturally talented motorcycle racers ever. Not necessarily the fastest but able to make the motorcycle do things in outrageous fashion that others cannot do or get away with.

I knew some racers that were salaried Buell riders in the AMA Pro Thunder Class. They said the front brake was a hinderance in Pro Thunder, so I am sure it is only worse in WSBK.

I have ridden a few Buells and I strongly disliked them, so maybe I am biased against them. EB seems committed to a few quirky designs that are never going to allow his bikes to be competitve.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:31 PM   #237
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I'll certainly admit Buell/EBR's racing results haven't been that great, but if you've never seen any evidence of success in racing for Buell, you haven't looked. Eslick won the Daytona Sportbike title on a Buell 1125R in 2009, Eslick and May had several podium finishes with the EBR's in AMA Superbike in 2012.
Right...by rigging the rules
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:20 PM   #238
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Right...by rigging the rules
...so that a nearly stock 1125cc V-twin weight-ballasted bike competed against no-holds-barred modified 600cc I-4's, tested by the AMA several times during the season to prove parity? Yea, I guess so.

Whatever you think about that, they were given no breaks for the AMA Superbike podiums they achieved in 2012.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:10 PM   #239
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...so that a nearly stock 1125cc V-twin weight-ballasted bike competed against no-holds-barred modified 600cc I-4's, tested by the AMA several times during the season to prove parity? Yea, I guess so.

Whatever you think about that, they were given no breaks for the AMA Superbike podiums they achieved in 2012.
Dude, we know your only interest in this thread is Buell. You are chin deep in the Kool Aid, but that's cool.

My thoughts on Buell are simply my opinion.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:15 PM   #240
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I'd heard once upon a time about that brake. I always thought it was way easier to get going using what everybody else had rather than going it alone. While it is a way to do it, it is not the easy way.
I have never been a big Yates fan. I thought he has that Way of diving in deep when another rider is coming down that ends in tears.
As for tires, My experience with club level Pirelli and Dunlops is limited. Dunlops scared hell out of me after getting used to Pirelli. When I made the switch from Dunlop to Pirelli I was amazed at how they worked. But, then I'm comparing apples to typewriters.

Not to bash the Buell as it is an effort, and at least they are out there testing the waters. Not too many have ever jumped in with both feet fully commited and took home all the hardware.
The effort is clearly toe in the water with these level of riders. Yates on his best day and Yosh Suzuki would maybe get to mid field. But, that's speculation much like the BOAT rants.

I thought the races this past weekend were good races, but not the paint scraping lead changing battles we'd like to see. Still cool to see the double done. I'm not rooting for anybody in particular. I just want to see a lot of racing.

No matter how much I think fuel in the frame or oil in the swinging arm is silly, I think it would be fun to see Yates backing that Buell into turns. I think that will be a while.
He took a pretty big hit breaking his leg a while ago and I have not seen him at his former level of flame.
May seems to be high siding a lot and getting hurt. That makes me think of a guy trying to go fast on something he is not comfortable with and just trying to throw it in there and see how it goes. Hopefully he can get over that before he is beat to paste.
The team need hard data they can go back to Buell with that says change the brakes to Brembo, and give us these motor characteristics. Then they'll be getting somewhere. Right now they are stuck trying to develop a motor at speed.
Lots of folks have tried that and it has never been pretty.
I don't recall seeing the Buell ever on Sunday and Sykes was off the front and away so they were wandering through the field.
Something is going horribly wrong there. They should at least be able to go race distance.

Plenty of other "give er a go" types have managed much better, including the current Bimota, the Benelli of the early 2000's, the Gobert Bimota, the Foggy Petronas, etc.

At least get them some decent brakes. I don't like seeing them finish last or not at all, either.
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