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Old 10-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #16
schattat
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A single sensor for multiple units could work, but not by directly connecting the individual units parallel to each other. The way the system work is you have 2 wires in those sensors, one is a high signal, e.g. 5V, the other is GND. The switch in the sensor does nothing but short circuit these two lines upon proximity of a magnet. The effect we saw on the Sigmas can occur when hooking up multiple units together that a high signal from unit A comes in contact with the GND signal of unit B. One would have to therefore measure which line is high and which is GND, couple them together with diodes (yes, those things yet again!) and then you could run a single sensor.
But as already mentioned by Dave, you have no backup!!!
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by schattat View Post
couple them together with diodes (yes, those things yet again!)
They are everywhere ....
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:02 PM   #18
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Question odo cable routing

I was wondering how the cables for the various types of rally odometers
are routed. I plan to run two,one tripmaster and one ICO and am most interested in how the cables are run to avoid damage at the bottom near
the sensor. Thanks.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by hardenduro View Post
I was wondering how the cables for the various types of rally odometers
are routed. I plan to run two,one tripmaster and one ICO and am most interested in how the cables are run to avoid damage at the bottom near
the sensor. Thanks.
Dave has a good writeup on that particularly:

http://www.rallymanagementservices.c...upport-manuals
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:58 AM   #20
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Dave has a good writeup on that particularly:

http://www.rallymanagementservices.c...upport-manuals
Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:38 PM   #21
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for ERTF GPS based events

for ERTF GPS based events

run 2 x Speedocap V3 units atop of the MD/Roadbook, LHS one set to odo trip mode connected to remote thumb switch, RHS one set on CAP / SOG mode

all the function of the traditional ICO/RNS odos plus the benefit of auto correct of the odo trip every time you pass a waypoint

PLUS SOG is based on GPS speed not ICO speed hence reduces risk of over speeds in DZ's

PLUS trip is GPS based so no concerns if you have the correct wheel circumference set or not

PLUS no low mounted vulnerable sensor or sensor lead issues

can also have an ICO at the bottom of the MD like many already do for additional redundancy & having a sensor based odo in addition to the GPS based Speedocaps

many autos run 2 x GPS's to achieve the same approach, interestingly the only moto I have seen so far to adopt this is Alain Duclos the current factory Sherco rider.

its what we use in our T3 Polaris



with a Speedocap V3 in front of the driver
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafariBerg View Post
for ERTF GPS based events

run 2 x Speedocap V3 units atop of the MD/Roadbook, LHS one set to odo trip mode connected to remote thumb switch, RHS one set on CAP / SOG mode

all the function of the traditional ICO/RNS odos plus the benefit of auto correct of the odo trip every time you pass a waypoint

PLUS SOG is based on GPS speed not ICO speed hence reduces risk of over speeds in DZ's

PLUS trip is GPS based so no concerns if you have the correct wheel circumference set or not

PLUS no low mounted vulnerable sensor or sensor lead issues

can also have an ICO at the bottom of the MD like many already do for additional redundancy & having a sensor based odo in addition to the GPS based Speedocaps

many autos run 2 x GPS's to achieve the same approach, interestingly the only moto I have seen so far to adopt this is Alain Duclos the current factory Sherco rider.

its what we use in our T3 Polaris
How does this setup compare in cost to traditional ICO's?
Is the weight and size same?
Power consumption comparison?
How does the "auto correct at Waypoints" work if you only need to be within various distances of a Waypoint to get a trigger to the next one? It potentially puts the ODO trip out by a fair bit depending whereabouts in the circle of a Waypoint you arrive and different for the different types of Waypoints.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBo1 View Post
How does this setup compare in cost to traditional ICO's?
Is the weight and size same?
Power consumption comparison?
How does the "auto correct at Waypoints" work if you only need to be within various distances of a Waypoint to get a trigger to the next one? It potentially puts the ODO trip out by a fair bit depending whereabouts in the circle of a Waypoint you arrive and different for the different types of Waypoints.
nearly everyone now uses a CAP repeater, or the majority of riders now the more recent Speedocap models, this approach simply adds another

every time you validate a GPS waypoint the GPS sets the odo to the correct km cumulative distance for that waypoint, given the validation radius is usually 100m or 90m depending on the event, the + - error margin is 0.1km basically the same as what the motos run with any way

this way you KNOW you have the right cumulative odo distance, not a GUESS depending on how on the ball or not you are manually re-adjusting your trip during the stage

besides with the Speedocap remote thumb switch you can still adjust the odo manually along the way between waypoints anyway should you wish to
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafariBerg View Post
nearly everyone now uses a CAP repeater, or the majority of riders now the more recent Speedocap models, this approach simply adds another

every time you validate a GPS waypoint the GPS sets the odo to the correct km cumulative distance for that waypoint, given the validation radius is usually 100m or 90m depending on the event, the + - error margin is 0.1km basically the same as what the motos run with any way

this way you KNOW you have the right cumulative odo distanceto within around 90m), not a GUESS depending on how on the ball or not you are manually re-adjusting your trip during the stagemanually adjust the ICO? Gave that up years ago, ecpet for if I've made a nav error.

besides with the Speedocap remote thumb switch you can still adjust the odo manually along the way between waypoints anyway should you wish to
Cheers SB. The CAP repeater is kinda essential but I'm on the fence on springing for the Speedox. More dollars down the gurgler when I already have the CAP Repeater. The speed restricted zones don't bother me, as I suspect I'm the only one that actually obeys those already anyway.
How many people use the auto calibrate function of the ICO? I was converted to that several years ago and love it. Hardly have to make manual adjustments after the first few km's or major changes of surface. I use the .01 feature rather than the .1 so down to 10 meters, not 100 meters. I can't help myself - I'm an engineer!
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:59 AM   #25
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Garry has a point, the automatic readjustment of the trip on the CAP readout is really slick! Apart from Alain Duclos, also Olivier Pain runs it.

I've been meaning to create a tripmaster version that (soley) runs with the ERTF trip values, but for the time being many riders still run the traditional wheel tripmeters. Plus there are also some minor regulation rules to overcome (monopoly of ERTF and all)...

BTW, many pros like to keep it as simple as can be, i.e. 100m trip readout (blackout the 10m position on their roadbook), no automatic calibration, etc..
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:59 AM   #26
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Thanks for starting this thread and everyone else for contributing with your valuable nav knowledge. This is literally a treasure trove for noobs like me.

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Old 11-06-2013, 07:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schattat View Post
BTW, many pros like to keep it as simple as can be, i.e. 100m trip readout (blackout the 10m position on their roadbook), no automatic calibration, etc..
This.
The less you have in your mind when racing, the better...

As far as the roadbook is concerned, I will be using HDB brake and clutch lever mounted switches in parallel with a normal RB switch giving maximum ease of use and the redundancy needed. I think that the roadbook area is left on its own regarding redundancy and I don't like this at the moment. If you have either a switch failure or a fall where you damage the rb switch, then you have to go manual.... Most RB's have either transmission or motor failures. There are things you can try to increase motor life but imo I think that the user should be able to service the unit with little or no tools at all in the middle of nowhere.
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640 Armageddon screwed with this post 11-22-2013 at 05:48 AM
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #28
DaveRMS
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If you have either a switch failure or a fall where you damage the rb switch, then you have to go manual....
Manual advance is one option, but it's not as safe as spending 5 minutes to make this switch, right on the side of the trail. We've done this in a race.

Strip the wires of the broken switch, insulate the handlebar with tape, and tape the first lead down:



Then tape the second lead above it. Use more tape to create a gap between the leads. Now you just press it down with your thumb.



You only need to repair the "forward" direction. You can manually reverse on the rare occasion that you get off track.

BTW, in my experience these failures are so rare on a well-prepared bike that it's really not worth investing in redundancy on the bike. Just have a spare switch at the bivouac. K.I.S.S. is a good policy.

There are very few things that can't be fixed quickly in the field.

Dave
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:22 AM   #29
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Manual advance is one option, but it's not as safe as spending 5 minutes to make this switch, right on the side of the trail. We've done this in a race.
Dave
I wanted to take off the manual knobs completely and only leave small splines for knobs to be put on when needed, but people wanted the manual advance just in case. I would not advise manual scrolling, too dangerous for me, though the fast guys do not stop for such a reason , that is why I am thinking a small switch from HDB. The buttons are almost invisible, the price is good and it saves me the trouble.





Come next week we will have a good setup and will be trying it in the field...





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Old 11-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #30
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Yeah, nice job! :)
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