ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2014, 03:50 AM   #76
tehdutchie
Beastly Adventurer
 
tehdutchie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
Oddometer: 1,766
Just installed my MD Rally Dash after a software update, including wireless wheel sensor and (why I need the new firmware) a GPS back up option. Testing next week in Romania, should be a ball!!


These deserve some love I think as the menu strucure is really easy to use, the wireless wheel sensor is innovative and the GPS back up totally new;

Easy editing;




Easy mounting;


More pics here:

https://plus.google.com/photos/+Anta...81734503626705

Im not affiliated to these guys, just supporting them as I did with Tony's units too!
__________________
=> http://www.eatdirt.nl/blog <=
tehdutchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 07:11 AM   #77
DaveRMS
Beastly Adventurer
 
DaveRMS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: San Rafael, CA
Oddometer: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeexc View Post
Thats great, but does it not mess that all up when a rider like me takes the wrong turn goes along the wrong track for a mile or so then has to turn back and find the correct track then re set the ico, the ico does not know you went the wrong way it will just include that mileage in the calculation which will throw it out, so the next tulip will not be correct and I get lost again
That's incorrect, Lee.

I can only speak for the ICO, but it actually does know. There are details in the algorithm that account for this. It can handle outliers.

The more you know...
DaveRMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 07:24 AM   #78
DaveRMS
Beastly Adventurer
 
DaveRMS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: San Rafael, CA
Oddometer: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
These deserve some love I think as the menu strucure is really easy to use, the wireless wheel sensor is innovative and the GPS back up totally new;
Antal, what are your thoughts? I think the display is difficult to read. Improved menu in nice, but you don't use the menu while racing, so not sure if that's a worthy trade-off.

Also, I don't buy into the wireless wheel sensor, at least as they implemented it. It still has a long wire section at the most vulnerable location--down at the wheel. I'm concerned that they have introduced a new failure mode (wireless) while not actually solving any wire problems (be they real or perceived).

Love to hear how it works for you in Romania.
DaveRMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 07:29 AM   #79
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
That's incorrect, Lee.

I can only speak for the ICO, but it actually does know. There are details in the algorithm that account for this. It can handle outliers.

The more you know...
And to put things into perspective, since this is a thread that people should know more ...

ICO's algorithm is different, so have no idea the increments or the philosophy they used at the time.
Actually the problem Lee is describing, is imo the easy part...
From the RNS manual which is freely available for Download:

Auto Calibrate Function
Included in the software of the TripMaster XL is a special Auto Calibration function. This special feature allows for even more precise trip counting should it be enabled (Auto Calibration is disabled by default). Once enabled, the TripMaster XL will monitor your trip adjustments and accordingly fine-tune your wheel circumference setting by 1mm up or down with every first correction. This feature will then be temporarily deactivated for a period of 20 seconds after which it will return to its operating state again. Adjusting your trip greatly after getting lost will have minor influence on this feature.

Example scenario:
• Trip = 134.78km
+++ adjustment (3 clicks up)
Trip = 134.81km
wheel setting now +1mm
.
• Trip = 134.83km
+ adjustment (1 click up)
Trip = 134.84km
wheel setting remains
(feature still temporarily
deactivated, 20s rule)
.
• Trip = 142.19km
++ adjustment (2 clicks up)
Trip=142.21km
wheel setting now +1mm
.
• Trip = 148.61km
-adjustment (1 click down)
Trip = 148.60km
Wheel setting now -1mm
__________________
Aurora Rally Equipment
"Do or Do Not. There is No Try" - Yoda

640 Armageddon screwed with this post 05-01-2014 at 07:42 AM
640 Armageddon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 08:03 AM   #80
DaveRMS
Beastly Adventurer
 
DaveRMS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: San Rafael, CA
Oddometer: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
And to put things into perspective, since this is a thread that people should know more ...
Sorry 640, I missed your reply in between. ICO manual has a similar explanation. I think the problem is that people don't read manuals otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this.

Quote:
Automatic wheel calibration

If Automatic Calibration is ON (See Page 8) each time an adjustment to the dis- tance is performed (other than Zeroing the distance) the instrument will do an automatic adjustment to the wheel circumference it uses to measure the dis- tance travelled.

NOTE: This calculation has many safeguards which prevent the instrument from making an unusual adjustment. It has been proven in 15 years of US Enduros.
If you get lost, then return to the course and make an adjustment, the instru- ment WILL NOT calculate a new wheel circumference. It will ignore the adjust- ment and use the same wheel circumference as before the adjustment.

At the start of each day's ride the instrument does not use the Automatic Cali- bration wheel circumference from the previous ride. It will use the wheel circum- ference set in Edit (See page 5) until a manual distance adjustment is per- formed along the course. It then begins adjusting to that day's course.
Dave
DaveRMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 09:12 AM   #81
Leeexc
Adventurer
 
Leeexc's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Oddometer: 53
Thanks for that, Looks like I can not blame the ICO for getting lost then

One problem I do have is being able to see the road book clearly (see my post on the first page of this thread) Whilst doing the Tuareg Rally this year I tried some bi focal safety glasses but had problems with my eyes watering and dirt getting in so tried plan b which was a plastic magnifying glass mounted about 50mm from the road book using bits of foam and duct tape, It was a lot better whilst it stayed in place so I have just finished MK2. I leave tomorrow for the Hellas rally so will see how it works.
Attached Images
 
Leeexc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 04:17 PM   #82
tehdutchie
Beastly Adventurer
 
tehdutchie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
Oddometer: 1,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
Antal, what are your thoughts? I think the display is difficult to read. Improved menu in nice, but you don't use the menu while racing, so not sure if that's a worthy trade-off.

Also, I don't buy into the wireless wheel sensor, at least as they implemented it. It still has a long wire section at the most vulnerable location--down at the wheel. I'm concerned that they have introduced a new failure mode (wireless) while not actually solving any wire problems (be they real or perceived).

Love to hear how it works for you in Romania.
The display is actually a lot brighter and has more contrast then other ones out there.
I like the menu option as we can now finally see what we are doing without having to get the manual out for adjustment ;)

I share your thoughts about the little lead coming out of the wireless sensor thingie. Having experienced wire breaks on 3 occassions, I do believe this is the way forward. Especially with the GPS back up.

Will report back to see if my feelings and thoughts turn out to be true
__________________
=> http://www.eatdirt.nl/blog <=
tehdutchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2014, 11:40 PM   #83
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
The display is actually a lot brighter and has more contrast then other ones out there.
I like the menu option as we can now finally see what we are doing without having to get the manual out for adjustment ;)

I share your thoughts about the little lead coming out of the wireless sensor thingie. Having experienced wire breaks on 3 occassions, I do believe this is the way forward. Especially with the GPS back up.

Will report back to see if my feelings and thoughts turn out to be true
I hear you Dave on the manual... Let's see who reads mine

I am sure the lead is there to allow positioning the sensor. Possibly on request, or after feedback in the next version the cable is ommited and you just get the box with the hall sensor.

About the GPS backup. Is that legal? Not in my everyday trail rides or small events, but in larger events.
__________________
Aurora Rally Equipment
"Do or Do Not. There is No Try" - Yoda

640 Armageddon screwed with this post 05-02-2014 at 03:04 AM
640 Armageddon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 03:02 AM   #84
tehdutchie
Beastly Adventurer
 
tehdutchie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
Oddometer: 1,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post

About the GPS backup. Is that legal? Not in my everyday trail rides or small events, but in larger events. I
Why wouldnt the GPS back up be legal? It is nothing more then a GPS receiver that works only with the tripmaster and takes over (or can be used as a main) when the sensor based signal doesnt come through.
__________________
=> http://www.eatdirt.nl/blog <=
tehdutchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 03:06 AM   #85
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
Why wouldnt the GPS back up be legal? It is nothing more then a GPS receiver that works only with the tripmaster and takes over (or can be used as a main) when the sensor based signal doesnt come through.
I remember from Hogwild's notes that (at least in Dakar)

''Not allowed:
- ANY GPS or other electronic navigation device other than that supplied by race organization.
- Use of radios, phones, or other outside communication devices while on race course, unless you want to be disqualified''

__________________
Aurora Rally Equipment
"Do or Do Not. There is No Try" - Yoda
640 Armageddon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 04:13 AM   #86
tehdutchie
Beastly Adventurer
 
tehdutchie's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
Oddometer: 1,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
I remember from Hogwild's notes that (at least in Dakar)

''Not allowed:
- ANY GPS or other electronic navigation device other than that supplied by race organization.
- Use of radios, phones, or other outside communication devices while on race course, unless you want to be disqualified''

Good thing is that the (firmware) software is easily accessed and can be adjusted at will, so no worries there
__________________
=> http://www.eatdirt.nl/blog <=
tehdutchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 04:30 AM   #87
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
Good thing is that the (firmware) software is easily accessed and can be adjusted at will, so no worries there
Next thing I know I see you taking it out of the mounting bracket and using it as a phone
oops I forgot, that was pilo's application
__________________
Aurora Rally Equipment
"Do or Do Not. There is No Try" - Yoda
640 Armageddon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 08:09 AM   #88
pilo
Rhymes with below
 
pilo's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: SLC, UT
Oddometer: 876
Wireless communication

The wireless sensor...

Just adding some experience. I've been working on a wireless remote for the RB app and had some challenges. The biggest challenge I am finding with wireless is that when it works everything is great!!! No wires! But once I have a hiccup, diagnosing the issue is basically impossible, especially away from the garage.

I spoke to a friend of mine who wires luxury houses with fancy electrical gadgets for TVs, sound etc. After describing one of my challenges he said "I'll take a hard wired solution over wireless any time. One less variable to worry about." And this is in houses that don't beat through the dirt at 140 Km/hr!

For me I thought wireless would be a cool simple solution, and one day it might, but in the short term it just created another level of uncertainty.
pilo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 08:53 AM   #89
DaveRMS
Beastly Adventurer
 
DaveRMS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: San Rafael, CA
Oddometer: 1,083
In our modern culture we're constantly being conditioned by advertisers to crave new bling and new technology. It's hard to resist. The big consumer electronics companies are creating problems for which their products offer solutions. It's fashion, too. "You don't have the *new* smartphone?"

The dual-sport/adventure market is an extension of the consumer market. The racing market is not.

I'm with Pilo on the wireless. Unless it's bomb-proof, it's just more stuff to go wrong, and it needs batteries replaced, etc. It's chock full of really complicated, non-trail-fixable failure modes. Sensor wire failure, which is the most common, is still statistically low and quite easy to manage, identify, and fix, on the trail.

GPS technology makes sense to me. It's old, proven, and military-grade. No configuration. Almost as robust as any other tech involved.

For dual-sport, consumer-grade products, the latest tech is all fun stuff and fashion, too. But for hard-core racing (at the top of the sport), it's counter to the problem at hand--WINNING!

K.I.S.S. is highly relevant for rally racing.
DaveRMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 09:03 AM   #90
640 Armageddon
-oo-
 
640 Armageddon's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Greece
Oddometer: 2,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
For dual-sport, consumer-grade products, the latest tech is all fun stuff and fashion, too. But for hard-core racing (at the top of the sport), it's counter to the problem at hand--WINNING!

K.I.S.S. is highly relevant for rally racing.
This

I like the latest technology as much as the next guy, and have beat to death a couple of smartphones because they did not obey my orders

That is the problem regarding the hard core racers. Simple, bulletproof. Period. No need to know anything else apart from the basics. There is a reason for that, and I find it excellent when people take information off the rider. I need to focus 100% on something. This is why , even modern cars have less warning lights than our 80's Citroen GSA used to have. Take the information off the rider. That information can be warning lights, but it can also be operational details and complexity.

Now wireless was our subject. Give it time and it will be there. It has been in bicycles since when? That's what people thought about the electronic dashes and they wanted cables instead. Same with ride by wire etc... I am not technophobic and I think that giving it time it will come there. This think is amazing if you think about it.
You could put three sensors on the bike. Already there. Then, if it does not pick up the signal, it auto switches to the next one. Possibilities are there, I say that its new, innovative and I would give thumbs up any given day that somebody does not come up with ''another one'' in the market, but he invents and creates new paths. May be it does not make it to Dakar (I really hope it does), but then again how many IMO's from touratech have?

It's all about market target
__________________
Aurora Rally Equipment
"Do or Do Not. There is No Try" - Yoda

640 Armageddon screwed with this post 05-02-2014 at 03:30 PM
640 Armageddon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014