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Old 06-08-2014, 03:18 AM   #121
Happe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardenduro View Post
Just a quick question,do any of you have pictures of your mount ICO sensor set-up @ the wheel.I have every possible option to mount the sensor/magnet but don't know which is the best. Thanks in advance. Fritz
The best is the one that works
Depending on where your sensor is located the magnet can sit in the Brakedisc as on my picture a few posts above
Or you glue it to the disc with epoxy or fashion a little piece and srew it in place as on this picture:
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:02 AM   #122
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Cool, ICO has a new gizmo, RallyeCAP. It has the odometer and heading repeater all in one unit, with attached small GPS puck. Looks the same as the VRL but does more.
http://www.icoracing.com/products/rallye-cap


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Old 08-11-2014, 10:50 PM   #123
theantipaul
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Looks great Scott, over the weekend I was thinking about failures and how to make the setup more bombproof. I already have the iPhone app that eliminates the speedo cable and have been running that for months as my only speedo and find the GPS ODO on the iPhone matches the roadbook very closely. With that out of the way I decided to make swiss cheese out of my F2R until I get a real holder, here are my thoughts, let me know your take on them.

I've been running my RB holder with a relay module for almost a year without issue, so I decided to try and cram as much as I could into the holder itself to try and protect and eliminate failures. I started with power to a fuse on the side, then a power switch (red) that went to the relay module, internal LED RB lighting switch (black) and a power cord to the display, in this case an ICO, figured when the time comes I'll power all iPhones off it. Then I drilled another hole into the holder so both switches, bar switch and redundant lever switch go into the holder and bolt into the relay module.





Turns the RB holder into a bus for the power and controls, so when I want to pull the whole mess, it comes off a bit easier.







Next I want to pull in all apart and minumize the loops in the wires and shrink it all, then .... a toggle mounted on the side as a fail safe so I never have to use the knobs. Any value?

Will be pounding it in a new RB ride in 2 weeks so need to button it up.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:39 AM   #124
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Nice work Paul (as usual!)

Paul:

Beautiful work. Nice to get more of this stuff integrate inside the safety of the Roadbook holder and not flopping in the wind.

Good job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theantipaul View Post
Looks great Scott, over the weekend I was thinking about failures and how to make the setup more bombproof. I already have the iPhone app that eliminates the speedo cable and have been running that for months as my only speedo and find the GPS ODO on the iPhone matches the roadbook very closely. With that out of the way I decided to make swiss cheese out of my F2R until I get a real holder, here are my thoughts, let me know your take on them.

I've been running my RB holder with a relay module for almost a year without issue, so I decided to try and cram as much as I could into the holder itself to try and protect and eliminate failures. I started with power to a fuse on the side, then a power switch (red) that went to the relay module, internal LED RB lighting switch (black) and a power cord to the display, in this case an ICO, figured when the time comes I'll power all iPhones off it. Then I drilled another hole into the holder so both switches, bar switch and redundant lever switch go into the holder and bolt into the relay module.


Next I want to pull in all apart and minumize the loops in the wires and shrink it all, then .... a toggle mounted on the side as a fail safe so I never have to use the knobs. Any value?

Will be pounding it in a new RB ride in 2 weeks so need to button it up.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:15 AM   #125
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Integrated or independent?

Hi Paul,

Definitely another clever mind at work

We experimented with the same "roadbook-as-junction-box" mod a while back, with the same goal of easily removing the nav setup with one wire connection and removing some excess cable. While we were initially impressed with our cleverness, we found that integration made it much harder to field service. It meant that we couldn't easily replace the road book in the field. We either needed a spares supply of previously modified units or had to perform the mods in the field.

Have you considered making an external junction box? Unlike our universal clamps, your HDB tower has enough surface to find a place to secure it. Just an idea.

Where we ended up is simple and cheap. We just tie all the power leads together outside the road book, secure them to the backing plate, and use the included F2R waterproof 12v connector as the single detachable point. We use that connector as the switch--just connect in the morning and disconnect in the evening (just like Iritrack at Dakar). I'll see if I can find a pic later.

Dave
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:32 AM   #126
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KISS


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Old 08-12-2014, 10:50 AM   #127
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KISS


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Old 08-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #128
beechum1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Cool, ICO has a new gizmo, RallyeCAP. It has the odometer and heading repeater all in one unit, with attached small GPS puck. Looks the same as the VRL but does more.
http://www.icoracing.com/products/rallye-cap


Really rounds out the Rally Navigator roadbook creation format.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:31 PM   #129
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It appears the thumb switches for the VRL and CAP are the same? as such, they could be wired in such a config that two switches would run either or both simultaneously or separately, based on user requirements?
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I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:45 PM   #130
theantipaul
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Hey Mike, Dave, how you been?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
We experimented with the same "roadbook-as-junction-box" mod a while back, with the same goal of easily removing the nav setup with one wire connection and removing some excess cable. While we were initially impressed with our cleverness, we found that integration made it much harder to field service. It meant that we couldn't easily replace the road book in the field. We either needed a spares supply of previously modified units or had to perform the mods in the field.
Wasn't trying to be too clever, just wanted to get rid of the rats nest of wires, they're begging to become issues, that and try and make it easier to trouble shoot for myself.

I can definitley see it a bit different if I was racing Dakar or another rally where the entry meant spares and such were mandatory. But I have to ask myself even in those situations, what can I field service on a roadbook holder in a race?

I see at least 3 main failures to plan for, o-rings, wiring and motor. Other then that, crashing but then all bets are off. So I can swap out o-rings in the field, I want my wiring as clean as possible to be able to visually check for issues, then check power and fuse. After that, button it up and find someone slow enough for me to follow to the bivy. Motor, same thing wouldn't service but would tag along. Those would be my contingencies, don't know about Quinn Cody's. What do you guys teach for those situations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
Have you considered making an external junction box? Unlike our universal clamps, your HDB tower has enough surface to find a place to secure it. Just an idea.
It's a little different for me, I want to be able to remove the nav gear, especially for night riding, I want the tower and lights, so nothing attached to the side plates.



Thing is what I did was add an on/off power switch, pigtail off that for power to a display, and run a redundant connector to a redundant switch to run the RB holder, w/plans to put a fail safe toggle on the case.

None of that would preclude a rider from swapping out the RB holder in the bivy, using the same connectors, connecting it to power and then to a RB switch. The only thing that would need to be added for my bike the way it sits now is power to a display, since that connector is currently connected to my RB holder, but my iPhone backs all that up.

Wouldn't be hard to come up with a relatively simple harness that can be made for most popular components that reduces the amount of wire and can be easily checked and replaced. Doesn't have to be in the holder, it can be ziptied to the bracket like you say. And while switches don't fail often, I can see removing that point for racing, but for me I just want to be able to turn everything off, pull some screws and take the whole thing off.

I agree Dan, KISS, that's what I'm going for.
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:27 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
It appears the thumb switches for the VRL and CAP are the same? as such, they could be wired in such a config that two switches would run either or both simultaneously or separately, based on user requirements?
Each device has it's own identical thumbswitch. Not intertwined at all. They can be swapped on the trail if needed.

Quoting Yellow Pig, K.I.S.S.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #132
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Hey all ,

Nice to see the assembly coming together Paul.
As Paul says, there is no remedy when running in the field for a burned motor (common RB failure) or a broken o-ring (another common failure). Both those failures will render the RB useless in a race and actually force the rider to either follow another rider or ''get a taxi ride'' as it's commonly known here , or go manual feed. Basically the roadbook is a sitting duck there, and only active towers will protect it, we have all seen what happens when racers hit a deer. I actually do not know if orings can be replaced on the spot or the transmission has to be out in an F2r. In an MD, all I have to say is good luck with that
For the motor, both F2r and MD need to be in the bivy to be repaired and I would actually try and find another unit than go through that procedure.

K.I.S.S. is always nicely quoted and it is a practice that I always try to embrace. We have to beware though. Is it that indeed, we are talking for an overcomplicated control system with cables that make it complex? Most of the time is people that do not understand the operation and the function of the things that say ''KISS'' . No offence to anybody
What is complex for me, may be dead easy for somebody who knows how to wire a couple of relays. Complex may be the software that Dave writes for the autocal function of the ICO for example. May be the electronics. May be the magnetic transmission of Mk1, the orings for life, may be the GPS antenna or may be the two relays inside the F2r that Paul has onto his bike. Mind you, the most complex device there is the two iphones, and we forgot about those

On the other hand, it is nice to be reminded that we have different categories in rally rides. Amateurs, rookies, pros, people that did or will do Dakar or other international and national races etc. There are needs for everybody. That is why some people choose handlebar brackets over lite towers or fixed rally systems. What has been addressed here (I think... -it rare happens- ) is a system for the occasional rally rider who takes out a couple of M8 circular connectors and four bolts and he goes Enduro without the nav gear. That by itself is a bonus and some of it can even be applied to Dakar bikes. The simplicity of removing and replacing a roadbook.

What I mean is that complex, is a state of mind nowadays. And complexity comes from a ''system''. i.e. we could have simple parts that can make a complex ''system'', which, as it is made from simple parts, it remains simple to service, simple to understand and simple to run.

Till later,
D.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:12 AM   #133
theantipaul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
I actually do not know if orings can be replaced on the spot or the transmission has to be out in an F2r.
Hi Dimitri, this pic shows the o-rings and pulleys on a F2R, I use a curved dental pic to swap the o-rings out, pretty easy.



On the subject of failures and tips and tricks, what are guys experiencing and what are your fixes for RB holders, switches and displays, in the field or bivy. Examples of KISS that work to make everything more reliable and such.

I think I have my setup pretty dialed for me right now, but there's always I've missed that's open to improvement, my main failure point is getting lost on a roadbook that I myself make and can't even follow while prerunning.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:55 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveRMS View Post
Each device has it's own identical thumbswitch. Not intertwined at all. They can be swapped on the trail if needed.

Quoting Yellow Pig, K.I.S.S.
Less convoluted, what I meant was, a LH and RH switch onboard and wiring Y'd so that on the fly just use the other switch. OR, if one, either the VRL or CAP were to fail, a switch could be thrown on the fly to control the other. Rather than having to stop and (maybe) pop fairings and switch connections. Is what I meant. I don't think a few minute stop and fix matters to me, but to someone that it does....
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:06 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
Less convoluted, what I meant was, a LH and RH switch onboard and wiring Y'd so that on the fly just use the other switch. OR, if one, either the VRL or CAP were to fail, a switch could be thrown on the fly to control the other. Rather than having to stop and (maybe) pop fairings and switch connections. Is what I meant. I don't think a few minute stop and fix matters to me, but to someone that it does....
In my experience, this failure is so uncommon that it's not worth fixing. Once installed **properly** (now that's a common problem), all the readily-available rally equipment is so reliable that only crash damage need be planned for, IMHO. For that, leaving each part "bone stock" means quick replacement in the bivouac. That's what I meant by "the field". I didn't mean trail side. I meant "away from the shop", where time, tools and materials are plentiful.

All the ideas expressed here are wonderful. Definitely great diversity. Kudos to one and all for having a unique take on things. For me, most problems already solved. Just want to grow the sport.

Dave
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