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Old 10-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #61
DAKEZ OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallbastid View Post
After roughly 3,000 street miles this season, it's amazing how easily close calls can be avoided by simply riding safely.

...frat boys on financed R1s, who ride out of control. They're easily distinguished by their sneakers, shorts, T-shirts and $200 gloves. Those are the donorcycles who make up the majority of statistics.
I believe it is middle aged returning riders on cruisers that have the highest crash stats.

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Old 10-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #62
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Is that right? I didn't realize that. Ive seen that poster once before in here, got a good laugh out of it!
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:36 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Depends on how you define "good rider", doesn't it?

I'm perfectly OK with your riding.
I don't consider myself particularly skillful regarding evasive maneuvers and cornering, etc. My scooter has a top speed of 60mph, and handles very well within its capabilities. My skills are being able to anticipate what to do to maintain speed on an old low powered machine, including not slowing down much. The limits imposed on me leave me ready for simple defensive maneuvers. I think ahead, imagining what might happen next, and because I am operating within my range of competence I seem to have good reactions. The last time I got into trouble was in April 1989 when a car stopped short in the middle of an intersection in a 35 mph zone. I collided with the car behind it when it stopped more quickly than I could. I don't want to operate a heavy and high powered motorcycle because I don't want to practice restraint or drive really fast.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:02 PM   #64
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[QUOTE=Ceri JC;22678006]

( someone else fails to observe ROW), QUOTE]
What is that ROW? Right of way? I was always told no one has ROW, although there may be times you are supposed to yild it. This used to confuse me a bit until I realized... it means, It's up to ME to avoid a collision, if everyone drove/rode this way we might all be safer, but most people are territorial about driving and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves (at least that's how it is here in PA)
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:06 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
No, CRASHES are caused by a chain of events, in which more than likely the RIDER is the "master link" in the chain that can easily break it to avoid the crash.

I too, fully agree with the OP. Because it all comes down to the rider's ATTITUDE about riding. For me, my attitude about riding is my top level guiding principle for riding. This is my attitude about riding, so take it for what it's worth:
  • NO ONE, but ME, is responsible for reducing my risk of riding,
  • ME, FIRST, is the first step to analyzing why I have traffic issues,
  • I am the one responsible to maintain a very high level of situational awareness of all traffic issues around me,
  • I expect NOTHING of other road users, ride like I am not there,
  • In every crash I have been in (four), ALL have been my fault, first,
  • I treat EVERY ride as a learning experience, because I DON'T know it all and there are far too many variables,
  • It is up to ME, to make myself visible, maintain my lane, my space cushion, sightlines, path of travel, etc,
  • I wear the gear I feel is needed to protect what is important, such a full face helmet, because I value my brain first,
  • I get the training I need to stay on top of my riding game,
  • I ride every ride, the best I can.
No one has to agree with these. But, I can say since I took on this attitude almost 20 years ago, I have VERY few traffic issues, I rarely have cars turn into me (if I do, I saw it coming), rarely have cars take my lane, have NO need for loud pipes, in fact I "may" have used my horn in defense maybe once in the last five years. I ride about 10,000 miles a year, about three times the national average. You ride your ride your way, but I can say this attitude has worked VERY well for me.
This x 10
I've been riding on the street since 1987, had 2 "crashes" one doing stoppies in a parking lot hit some black sand and fell going about 3 mph, the other doing a wheelile to amuse the neighborhood kids, looped my 1200 Bandit at about 15 mph. I can't remember the last time I had a "close call" on the bike. This doesn't count on the dirt though, if you aint crashin you aint tryin hard enough!!
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:29 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
What is that ROW? Right of way?
ROW = Right of Weight.

4000 lbs of rolling steel wins in a contact with a motorcycle. You can be dead right ... But your still dead.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:27 PM   #67
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[QUOTE=KX50002;22678701]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post

( someone else fails to observe ROW), QUOTE]
What is that ROW? Right of way? I was always told no one has ROW, although there may be times you are supposed to yild it. This used to confuse me a bit until I realized... it means, It's up to ME to avoid a collision, if everyone drove/rode this way we might all be safer, but most people are territorial about driving and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves (at least that's how it is here in PA)
I think that is because motor vehicle statutes don't mention who has the Right of Way. They just specify which driver has to yield right-of-way.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:12 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
I believe it is middle aged returning riders on cruisers that have the highest crash stats.
I can dig out the charts 'n' stuff if you want. (At this point, I'm inclined to wait for 2013 numbers, which I suspect are going to show the trend even more strongly than 2012 did- sigh). But the short answer is both are correct, somewhat- younger males on sportbikes are slightly overrepresented, but the biggest glaring spike is older men on cruisers.

Touring, Sport Touring, Dual sports, are all underrepresented.

My gut feeling read is that those who take riding seriously, do so frequently and are willing to work on dealing the hazards instead of ignoring the 800 pound gorilla, are less likely to crash than those who own, and occasionally operate, a motorcycle.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:30 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
My gut feeling read is that those who take riding seriously, do so frequently and are willing to work on dealing the hazards instead of ignoring the 800 pound gorilla, are less likely to crash than those who own, and occasionally operate, a motorcycle.
My riding instructor said something along those lines - the cutoffs he used were <5000kms per year - hobbyist, 5K - 10K - commuter, and >10K - either stupid or really serious about riding.

The people I work with who ride make an interesting social study - the ones who speak loudest about the hazards are the ones who put on the fewest kms. I don't know how it woks, but I do know that their risk threshholds seem to be quite low, and this reduces their riding. Do they inflate the risks in their heads to justify less riding? Do they not ride because they perceive the risks as too high? I have no idea. I do believe that those who ride more develop better coping skills and strategies simply because they are faced with so many more and different situations. This broadens their sample set and refines their riding function.

It's like using the front brake for trail braking. You go through a progression. OMG, you are going to die. Well, I didn't fall when I used it going straight... I did it in a corner a few times and it kind of saved my ass, but damn, that was a lot of focus... How could you not do that, it should be a basic skill!!!
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:07 AM   #70
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10 crashes and advise

I am not typing this to rain on your parade op. You feel compelled to right this post for some reason I suppose. To advise others or to boast, who knows. I would be more inclined to heed the advice of a long time rider who has never been in a crash. He would be the mentor most good riders and young riders could look up to. Your story sounds a lot like a AA confession. Just calling it as I see it. Not trying to start a conflict here.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:20 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by amknightrider View Post
...
I would be more inclined to heed the advice of a long time rider who has never been in a crash.
...
I was a longtime rider who had never been a crash.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by amknightrider View Post
...I would be more inclined to heed the advice of a long time rider who has never been in a crash. He would be the mentor most good riders and young riders could look up to. Your story sounds a lot like a AA confession. Just calling it as I see it. Not trying to start a conflict here.
You sound like a boy scout.

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Old 11-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #73
DAKEZ OP
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
I was a longtime rider who had never been a crash.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:07 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
My riding instructor said something along those lines - the cutoffs he used were <5000kms per year - hobbyist, 5K - 10K - commuter, and >10K - either stupid or really serious about riding.

The people I work with who ride make an interesting social study - the ones who speak loudest about the hazards are the ones who put on the fewest kms. I don't know how it woks, but I do know that their risk threshholds seem to be quite low, and this reduces their riding. Do they inflate the risks in their heads to justify less riding? Do they not ride because they perceive the risks as too high? I have no idea. I do believe that those who ride more develop better coping skills and strategies simply because they are faced with so many more and different situations. This broadens their sample set and refines their riding function.

I agree entirely. Those who ride more, in more varied conditions, learn more, and develop better skill sets. It does seem the lower the annual miles, the more claims of what "traffic does to ME to make my riding risky", rather than what I the rider is doing wrong. We've all met someone who claims "I hadda give up riding cause the bike was gonna kill me". No,....YOU were gonna kill you, at least you had some sense to give it up.

Its like which rider has more or better experience: the 20 year "experienced" (I have had these in my ERC) of about 1,000 miles per year, or the four year "newbie" with 5,000 miles per year. Heck, I've had two year "newbies" in my ERC with 20,000 miles under their butt. The 4/5000 or 2/10000 are far more experienced than the 20/1000 rider in my book.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:06 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
It does seem the lower the annual miles, the more claims of what "traffic does to ME to make my riding risky", rather than what I the rider is doing wrong.
yep.

i have a couple friends who only ride on sunny summer weekend days for fun (which is cool...great way to spend a sunny summer day).

seems like after almost every ride they tell me about how "3 cars almost killed me on my ride today".

i ride every day. put on more miles in a month than they do in a year. i've had about 3 close calls ever.

i never really understood it until i went riding with them. it's not even that they do anything "wrong" in a legal or moral sense. but, it's almost like they're riding with a chip on their shoulder...trying to assert their rights and make cars respect them or something instead of taking it on themselves to make their own ride safe.

the funny thing is that they think they are riding safely. but, they focus on trying to control what the cars do. they focus on trying to make the cars see them. they try to "own the lane", etc. etc.

imho, it is a safer approach to not bother trying to control the cars. just assume they don't see you (but also realize they aren't actively trying to kill you, they're just typical car drivers). understand that you do not "own the lane" and some car might merge/turn into it no matter what you do. do what you need to do to minimize the time you spend in dangerous spots (without relying on the car doing anything in particular) and always have a way out.
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