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Old 08-23-2005, 01:32 PM   #1
MooreRon OP
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KTM Super Enduro vs. HP2 - Who Won?

"...KTM has been raced against the BMW HP2 at the Erzburg Rodeo and at one round of the German Cross Country Championship."

-- Dirt Rider Magazine

Well, what was the outcome?

Jimmy Lewis needs to stick to racing, and not writing, if he's going to leave out crucial info like this!
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:36 PM   #2
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Never mind, I found it somewhere else...

"One second decided the victory to conclude the 2 Cylinder Super Enduro Class , the brand-new Race Event on the first day of the Erzbergrodeo in 2005, and KTM fetches the first podium at the Erzberg! With two perfect runs over the 17.5 km long gravel piste to the Erzberg peak the KTM factory rider Giovanni Sala (ITA) secured the first podium for the Mattighofener on his KTM 950 Super Enduro.

Behind Sala, Chris Pfeiffer (DE) hammered over the finish line on his BMW HP2. Kurt Nicoll (UK) saved an impressive third place for KTM, the Motocross team manager lost 10 seconds on his fellow brand collegue Sala."

-- endurouk.com

Not a surprising outcome. BMW looses...again.



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Old 08-23-2005, 01:50 PM   #3
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BMW sez

They will probably say it's because the Beemer is 'new' and the KTM has had more race time...
(we would probably say the KTM is 'race-proven')
:-)
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottabshire
They will probably say it's because the Beemer is 'new' and the KTM has had more race time...
(we would probably say the KTM is 'race-proven')
:-)
I kinda wish I'd posted this over in GSpot.
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:16 PM   #5
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The beemer, however, has beaten the KTM on more than one occasion it seems.... go visit GSPOT for all the gloating
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Old 08-23-2005, 02:20 PM   #6
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ktm

The KTM won because Sala was riding it. He is THE best off road racer on these type of machines.
Off road racing as we all know, is rider not bike, look at Carmichel.
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Old 08-26-2005, 04:04 AM   #7
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Hp2

don't
HP2 wins are more than KTM's.
Sala is a good rider but old for enduro.
Pfeiffer is young and very strong. HP2 is better than 950

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I kinda wish I'd posted this over in GSpot.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:29 AM   #8
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Go ahead and post it "over there". HP2 has simply had more time on course in it's current form without 950 head to head competition. 950 is definitely the better machine-I did not see an HP2 in the last PD? That'll be the big test for the HP2; '06 P2Dakar. I can put together a 950 race package with spare motors for less than $20k. I think the HP2 is over $20k just to acquire, if you can find one. Anyone seen an HP2 in the U.S. in person? Gotta look at that race section of forum more... Anyone here racing an HP2?
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Old 08-26-2005, 06:16 AM   #9
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Long time lurker.....First post

HP2 is a nice bike, a big improvement over previous Beemers in that category, but to say it is a better bike than the KTM (or any bike for that matter) is a bit much don't ya think?

Yeah the rider is a big part of off road racing. I raced Enduro and Hare Scrambles for many years and have seen really good riders on 125's smoke guys on larger "better" bikes. When it is really muddy and nasty, the guys on trials bikes with large fuell cells used to kick everybodies butts.

If the HP2 is so great, we'll see how they do in the P2D. KTM has been owning that for a while now.

Having owned 2 Beemers, they are good rides, but also having owned 6 KTM's over the years, well I'll take the lower priced, lesser KTM anytime for serious off roading. Not to mention the power......
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:34 AM   #10
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BMW wins the duel of the twin-cylinder giants in Germany
German Cross Country, 5.a prova, Goldbach, Germania

(Sala/KTM and Kirssi/BMW in action at Goldbach, Germany)
When the prestigious „show down“ of the new generation twin-cylinder offroad bikes, the 950 Superenduro of KTM and the BMW HP2 1200 boxer got ready for start at the German Cross Country GCC in Goldbach, a former MX GP site, you could feel the tension in the air. However, it was BMW to win at it's home soil with an impressive margin over rival KTM.

Sala and Kirssi shake hands before their battle in Goldbach, both in Acerbis equipment

For the first time after the Austrian „Erzberg“ race in may, the Bavarian motor-works faced the Austrian offroad giants on German soil.
Also for the first time, the twin cylinder bikes met to compete in a real enduro/ cross country race on difficult terrain. While BMW’s HP2, built on the engine base of the classic boxer of the successful GS series in a radically new developed sport-chassis, was presented only lately to be available at BMW dealers soon, KTM would use an prototype enduro version of the 950 ccm V2 engine, victorious already with Fabrizio Meoni at the DAKAR Rallye.
Both machines got piloted by athletes of the best: The last year's winner of the German Cross Country championship, the 26-year old Finn Simo Kirssi on BMW, versus multiple Enduro world champion Giovanni Sala from Italy on the KTM, with his 42 years a veteran in offroad sport. Nevertheless, it was not a question of winning or loosing for Acerbis, due to the fact that both riders are fully equipped with Acerbis riding gear, protection, helmets and boots.

The payed attention and value of this „showdown“ was especially obvious beside the track, not only in discussions and internet polls, gathering advance opinions who will be the winner, but also in the prominent appearance of staff of both brands. On the part of BMW HP2, development-leader Markus Theobald and BMW Motorrad sport director Berthold Hauser were present. From KTM, marketing manager Winfried Kerschhaggl and development-leader Phillip Habsburg came over from Austria to follow the race personally.
Class 1 is the king class for professionals in Cross Country, and the final race on sunday, featuring a tough 2 hour competition. Altogether, almost 600 pilots startet in seven classes in two days. Since there is no separate twin-cylinder class in Cross Country sport, the big engines with double the power of a MX bike, but also nearly double of weight had to line up together with the single cylinder mx and enduro bikes for the classic „Le Mans“ style start, battling their own „race in the race.“ BMW’s Simo Kirssi collected a brilliant take-off and came back 4th from round one, while Giovanni Sala was stuck a little bit in traffic of the nearly 60 pilots counting crowd.


Giovanni takes all he has to keep the pace with the new KTM Superenduro V2


However, it was very obvious after a couple of laps, that there would not be the awaited personal battle between Sala and Kirssi. Kirssi pulled away in a dominant way, taking more than 10 seconds every lap from the Italian multiple enduro world champion and KTM hero.
In the course of the two-hour race, there was not to record any technical problems either, so a clear victory for BMW could be secured, leading KTM home with one lap more on the clock. The total classification in the high profile field, finally was a 9th place for Simo Kirssi and a 11th position for Giovanni Sala, an outstanding result for both in consideration of the weight and handling handicap in the comparison to the light mono cylinders. French Le Touquet champion Arnaud Demeester won the race on Yamaha, before Jerom Hemery on Suzuki, also from France, and German Ex MX GP pilot Bernd Eckenbach on a KTM. Arnaud Demeesters overall lead in the GCC championship got extended with this race to an unreachable gap winning the luxurious Nissan Xtrail, first price for the GCC championship victory.
Contact GCC /Information: www.baboons.de
Simo Kirssi styling on the BMW HP2 high performance boxer
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:54 AM   #11
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Both bikes are fantastic.........

You guys are acting like young school aged kids......."my daddy can beat up your daddy"..........

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Old 08-26-2005, 08:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daotoys1
Both bikes are fantastic.........

You guys are acting like young school aged kids......."my daddy can beat up your daddy"..........


Ain't it the truth....sometimes the Cowboys win, sometimes the Indians.
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boejangles
BMW wins the duel of the twin-cylinder giants in Germany
German Cross Country, 5.a prova, Goldbach, Germania
Thanks a lot, James!



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Old 07-05-2014, 11:58 AM   #14
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bump for a cool old thread ...
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:44 AM   #15
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I have a pdf of a group test done by BIKE, Adv990, GSA1200, HP2 E and SE R. If someone can post.

The SE won.
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