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Old 11-17-2013, 05:12 PM   #46
pplummer
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Dumb question: did you balance the front when you balanced the rear? I'm trying to see what else you can do assuming you don't have access to move the rear. I'd just try it but I'm guessing it's not going to be great.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:54 AM   #47
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You mean yesterday? No, didn't get a chance. But I will this week. I hope to get the bike over to a mechanic with a tire tool on Sunday to rotate the rear...might have to move the front too. Based on the rear, the front has not been balanced either (both done at the same place...lesson learned, I'll bring the balancer when I take the bike there!)
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #48
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What we need..is some napkins to draw on..and beers..
Ok, I stayed out of this for a while on the OP's request. Honestly I would just just feel bad if some poor soul buys ESA or more expensive thinking it can affect front/rear wheel loading.

VEGASGSA, I did look up those links. One is a sales pitch for corner scales, the other one more to the point. However not great, and too easy to read the wrong thing. What that PDF is saying is with four wheels on a car, and you shorten just one, then you DO indeed change the weights on the four corners.

That's a car. It has 4 wheels on the extremes on an 'X'. Put a smaller wheel one leg of the 'X' (for this discussion effectively the same as compressing a spring), and it changes weights on each wheel considerably.

A bike is different. Put a smaller front wheel (or compress a spring), and you change wheelbase minimally. If you have a bike with 1500mm wheelbase, a weight of 500 lbs and a center of gravity 800 mm forward of the rear wheel, then front wheel load is 800/1500*500lbs.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #49
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Oh yeah, check for a broken rear shock lower bolt...my 1150 did that and it'd wiggle around 100 mph. The bolt was broken to the right side of the shock, but the pressure of the shock pushing on the left chunk of bolt was holding it in place making it seem to be intact. Make sense?
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Gompie View Post
Ok, I stayed out of this for a while on the OP's request. Honestly I would just just feel bad if some poor soul buys ESA or more expensive thinking it can affect front/rear wheel loading.

VEGASGSA, I did look up those links. One is a sales pitch for corner scales, the other one more to the point. However not great, and too easy to read the wrong thing. What that PDF is saying is with four wheels on a car, and you shorten just one, then you DO indeed change the weights on the four corners.

That's a car. It has 4 wheels on the extremes on an 'X'. Put a smaller wheel one leg of the 'X' (for this discussion effectively the same as compressing a spring), and it changes weights on each wheel considerably.

A bike is different. Put a smaller front wheel (or compress a spring), and you change wheelbase minimally. If you have a bike with 1500mm wheelbase, a weight of 500 lbs and a center of gravity 800 mm forward of the rear wheel, then front wheel load is 800/1500*500lbs.
It's all good..there were blurbs about weight jacking in both of the links..no worries..

You said you cannot change the weight bias in a car, no way no how..scales, will definitely show that you can..and while I agree that on a short wheelbase..anything..it will remain fairly constant..however I think the theory and physics, still holds true..especially on a loaded ADV bike with a high center of gravity..much more so than a cruiser type bike..

Hell..I could be wrong..wouldn't be the first time..but the physics of the car set up, have to be the same as for a bike..it just makes sense..

While we slightly hijacked the thread...I appreciate the debate..
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Gompie View Post

A bike is different. Put a smaller front wheel (or compress a spring), and you change wheelbase minimally.
Wheelbase is the distance between axels, so wheel size has no effect. Wheelbase will change as the axels move through the arc of the suspension componets . And I'm in the camp that preload absolutely effects the weight placed on the contact patch, not so much at a static stance, but to a much larger degree by virtue of affecting pitch while in motion.

bemiiten screwed with this post 11-19-2013 at 04:18 PM
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:29 PM   #52
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Wheelbase is the distance between axels, so wheel size has no effect. Wheelbase will change as the axels move through the arc of the suspension componets . And I'm in the camp that preload absolutely effects the weight placed on the contact patch, not so much at a static stance, but to a much larger degree by virtue of affecting pitch while in motion.
Yep..this is what I'm thinking as well..
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:08 AM   #53
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Here we go again, Gompie why don't you stay the fuck outta this thread? I asked nicely the first time. You post one time and three people come in to counter. Get over it, we don't agree with you.

Here, I made it easy for you: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...0#post22820140
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #54
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Here we go again, Gompie why don't you stay the fuck outta this thread? I asked nicely the first time. You post one time and three people come in to counter. Get over it, we don't agree with you.

Here, I made it easy for you: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...0#post22820140

1) cant access that, think the moderators had a hand in this
2) whats your problem? I did stay for 2 days out of the thread, no one else responded, so i stated what i think is right. this is a free forum right?
3) I do believe you're wrong. Preload does not affect front/rear wheel loading.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:44 PM   #55
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You mean yesterday? No, didn't get a chance. But I will this week. I hope to get the bike over to a mechanic with a tire tool on Sunday to rotate the rear...might have to move the front too. Based on the rear, the front has not been balanced either (both done at the same place...lesson learned, I'll bring the balancer when I take the bike there!)
Good luck, let us know what you find out. I'm hoping its something dumb like an out of balance or bad tire. It's always good to start with the simple stuff.

Gompie - If you start a thread on preload and weight, I'd happily respond my thoughts :-)
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:15 PM   #56
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Gompie - If you start a thread on preload and weight, I'd happily respond my thoughts :-)
Hi, no I had no intentions of starting a new thread. I think I understand it fairly well. If one thinks I'm wrong then feel free to argue.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:46 AM   #57
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Good luck, let us know what you find out. I'm hoping its something dumb like an out of balance or bad tire. It's always good to start with the simple stuff.

Gompie - If you start a thread on preload and weight, I'd happily respond my thoughts :-)
Thanks pplumber, I have a stack of things at work that are in the way but I hope to work on this more on Sunday, and maybe get both front and rear balanced... If I can do so early enough in the day, I will take it out for a ride and see how it feels.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:14 AM   #58
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Update: Got to the tire shop and after some miming and a few calls to Korean friends for translation, we started getting somewhere. Rotated the tire 180 degrees on the wheel and balanced again. This time only needed 1.25 oz...so that's a good start. The front needed no weight at all, so that meant I removed 1.25 oz off the rim.

It was snowing as I was coming home so no chance to test. When I have a dry day I'll go out and try it.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:15 AM   #59
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Update: Got to the tire shop and after some miming and a few calls to Korean friends for translation, we started getting somewhere. Rotated the tire 180 degrees on the wheel and balanced again. This time only needed 1.25 oz...so that's a good start. The front needed no weight at all, so that meant I removed 1.25 oz off the rim.

It was snowing as I was coming home so no chance to test. When I have a dry day I'll go out and try it.
That should help!

Jim
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:11 AM   #60
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Got out for a ride. It still has a light wobble, but I wonder if at this point it is "normal". I really have to be in a near wheelie coming out of a corner and hitting a bump to get it to squirm. But the roads are not safe enough (sand/grit) now to see if it's ok in more sane conditions. Frankly I'm too chicken shit to see if it will more violently headshake like it did at 80mph + a few months ago. Besides, just how fast should I be riding my TKC 80 front and my K60 rear anyway, right?

Tourances in the spring...it may just have to wait, whether I want it to or not.
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