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Old 11-10-2013, 02:56 AM   #16
MichaelJ
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Let me start by hoping that the storm doesn't do too much damage. You're far enough inland so that most of the effects won't hurt you, but the coastal areas won't be so lucky.

On to the business at hand...

This is the route that I'd do

From Zurich southeast along the Zurichersee. The road will turn south towards Schwyz. You will ride right past the Victorinox factory in Ibach, just south of Schwyz. They have a store there, but the prices are no better than anywhere else.

Continue south to Brunnen on the Vierwaldstattersee (Lake Lucerne) and continue to Andermatt.

Vierwaldstattersee looking south from Brunnen



Schollenen Gorge looking north (between Andermatt and the lake)



From Andermatt, south to Hospental and over the St. Gotthard pass. Consider taking the old cobbledstoned road (La Tremola) down to Airolo from the top.

La Tremola viewed from the new road



Down into Airolo and down the valley to Lugano and south to the Italian border and Milano.

The route is just a bit over 300kms. Most of the road is open and will flow nicely. You will have traffic coming out of Zurich, and the stretch from Lugano to Milano (about 90kms) is pretty urban, so it will be a bit slower.

Microsoft AutoRoute shows the direct route (all Autobahn) as 280 kms and 3 hours. The route I've outlined above (which actually parallels the Autobahn for most of it) is 310 kms and 5.5 hours.

And in Switzerland, you REALLY want to avoid the Autobahns - they have a LOT of tunnels. Especially the 17km long St. Gotthard tunnel that runs under Andermatt. And is usually jammed with traffic.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:49 AM   #17
alicethomas
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It's not sure that the high alpine roads are open for public.
Winter lasts very long in the mountains and bad weather means new snow.
But their status can be checked online, i.e. with http://www.alpineroads.com/passstatus.php

Paris is far away, it will need much time. But if you have to go...
I would visit Luzern (Lucerne) instead of Zürich. See Michaels picture!
The Gotthard route is a nice ancient path crossing the Alps.
Nicer (but more time consuming) is a detour via Susten-Grimsel/Oberaarsee-Furka or Nufenen. These are the most beautiful Swiss passes.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:11 PM   #18
GiorgioXT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
Down into Airolo and down the valley to Lugano and south to the Italian border and Milano.

The route is just a bit over 300kms. Most of the road is open and will flow nicely. You will have traffic coming out of Zurich, and the stretch from Lugano to Milano (about 90kms) is pretty urban, so it will be a bit slower.
.
MichaelJ advices are really spot-on !

Lugano to Milano could be really jam-packed with traffic, particularly in the afternoons of working days, arriving from Gotthard, I'd rather after Bellinzona take the road that follow the east coast of Lago Maggiore,- also much more scenic- Magadino , Luino , Laveno Mombello , Sesto Calende. Somma Lombardo, then the SR 336 to Magenta through Malpensa Airport and arrive in Milano through SR 11.

Plus, if the reason for Paris is visiting it more than riding it, consider the option of taking an high-speed TGV train from Grenoble or Geneve
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GiorgioXT screwed with this post 11-10-2013 at 04:21 PM
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:25 PM   #19
GiorgioXT
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Italy : Rome to Pisa
Take SP 493 to Bracciano , SR2 to Viterbo , Lago Bolsena, Siena (Worth a visit more than Pisa!) San Gimignano , SR 439 through La Sterza and Ponsacco to Pisa
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #20
lamcaumoi OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ
Let me start by hoping that the storm doesn't do too much damage. You're far enough inland so that most of the effects won't hurt you, but the coastal areas won't be so lucky. .
Thanks MichaelJ, Haiyan Typhoon made landfall in our country but luckily, had weakened and change the source to came across the coastal, not direct to any province.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ

On to the business at hand...

This is the route that I'd do

From Zurich southeast along the Zurichersee. The road will turn south towards Schwyz. You will ride right past the Victorinox factory in Ibach, just south of Schwyz. They have a store there, but the prices are no better than anywhere else.

Continue south to Brunnen on the Vierwaldstattersee (Lake Lucerne) and continue to Andermatt.

From Andermatt, south to Hospental and over the St. Gotthard pass. Consider taking the old cobbledstoned road (La Tremola) down to Airolo from the top.

La Tremola viewed from the new road


Down into Airolo and down the valley to Lugano and south to the Italian border and Milano.

The route is just a bit over 300kms. Most of the road is open and will flow nicely. You will have traffic coming out of Zurich, and the stretch from Lugano to Milano (about 90kms) is pretty urban, so it will be a bit slower.

Microsoft AutoRoute shows the direct route (all Autobahn) as 280 kms and 3 hours. The route I've outlined above (which actually parallels the Autobahn for most of it) is 310 kms and 5.5 hours.

And in Switzerland, you REALLY want to avoid the Autobahns - they have a LOT of tunnels. Especially the 17km long St. Gotthard tunnel that runs under Andermatt. And is usually jammed with traffic.


La Tremola must be between B and C point in the google map, right. So beautiful.

As I can see from the map, there are 2 parallel routes. Can I say that the old road is the curve route (numbered 2 in blue) and the other is new one also name Autobahn (number 2 in violet) that we need to avoid. If we can plan to have 1 more day then could you please suggest a place to stop between Zurich and Milan.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:29 PM   #21
lamcaumoi OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.advrider.com/forums/member.php?u=190017"
alicethomas[/URL]]
It's not sure that the high alpine roads are open for public.
Winter lasts very long in the mountains and bad weather means new snow.
But their status can be checked online, i.e. with http://www.alpineroads.com/passstatus.php
Thanks Alicethomas. We plan to ride on next June and will check the pass status in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.advrider.com/forums/member.php?u=190017"
alicethomas[/URL]]
Paris is far away, it will need much time. But if you have to go...
I would visit Luzern (Lucerne) instead of Zürich. See Michaels picture!
The Gotthard route is a nice ancient path crossing the Alps.
Nicer (but more time consuming) is a detour via Susten-Grimsel/Oberaarsee-Furka or Nufenen. These are the most beautiful Swiss passes.
.
Understand that Paris will consume a lot of our time but how to say, this is Paris then we have to ride. J
We will consider to ride more Swiss passes (Susten-Grimsel/Oberaarsee-Furka or Nufenen) if we can arrange 1 more day between Zurich and Milan. Not much change to climb to the Alps.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #22
lamcaumoi OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.advrider.com/forums/member.php?u=4939"
GiorgioXT[/URL]]
MichaelJ advices are really spot-on !

Lugano to Milano could be really jam-packed with traffic, particularly in the afternoons of working days, arriving from Gotthard, I'd rather after Bellinzona take the road that follow the east coast of Lago Maggiore,- also much more scenic- Magadino , Luino , Laveno Mombello , Sesto Calende. Somma Lombardo, then the SR 336 to Magenta through Malpensa Airport and arrive in Milano through SR 11.

Plus, if the reason for Paris is visiting it more than riding it, consider the option of taking an high-speed TGV train from Grenoble or Geneve

Italy : Rome to Pisa
Take SP 493 to Bracciano , SR2 to Viterbo , Lago Bolsena, Siena (Worth a visit more than Pisa!) San Gimignano , SR 439 through La Sterza and Ponsacco to Pisa
Note with many thanks to GiorgioXT
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #23
MichaelJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamcaumoi View Post
IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k310/lamcaumoi/Euro2014/Andermatt.jpg[/IMG]

La Tremola must be between B and C point in the google map, right. So beautiful.
No - B and C are the "New" road over the pass.

There are actually three roads;
1. The Autobahn tunnel that runs from Goschenen (just north of Andermatt) to Airolo (in green)

2. The "New" road over the top that your map shows (in bright yellow) and

3. La Tremola - an older road (in pale yellow)

The roads split at the south end of the small lake by the monument and museum at the top of the pass - at the upper left corner of the map below.



The St. Gotthard monument. (looking north) It commemorates the first flight over the Alps.





Bad video from the top of the pass going down La Tremola in 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamcaumoi View Post
If we can plan to have 1 more day then could you please suggest a place to stop between Zurich and Milan.
Easy - Andermatt. Just about half way, and lots of hotels and restaurants.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #24
lamcaumoi OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
No - B and C are the "New" road over the pass.

There are actually three roads;
1. The Autobahn tunnel that runs from Goschenen (just north of Andermatt) to Airolo (in green)

2. The "New" road over the top that your map shows (in bright yellow) and

3. La Tremola - an older road (in pale yellow)

Bad video from the top of the pass going down La Tremola in 2011


Easy - Andermatt. Just about half way, and lots of hotels and restaurants.
Many thanks to MichaelJ. Look like you live in Alps. I'm reading all of your Alps route to get more reference and experience.

Rgrds,
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:37 AM   #25
GiorgioXT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
Easy - Andermatt. Just about half way, and lots of hotels and restaurants.
Downturn is that Switzerland and Andermatt are not cheap, particularly Hotels and Restaurants, a good alternative could be : Zurich - Rapperswil - Bad Ragaz - Landquart - Chur - Lenzerheide - Filisur - Albulapass - Pontresina , Here you could choose to do the Bernina pass (scenic !) and stop in Tirano for sleeping (you will spend half to a third respect swiss) or do the Engadin road (scenic too !) through Silvaplana and Sils Maria , do the Maloja pass and stop in Chiavenna.
Then to Milan following one or other coast of Como lake, both are nice.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:47 PM   #26
lamcaumoi OP
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Dear Adv-Riders,

Below is our revised route map after consulted with all of you guy here. We are try to find if any truck to carry our scooter from Grenoble (Lyon)-> Paris or Paris -> Basel then we can have 1 more day to stay in Alps (between Zurich - Milan)

Rgrds,

Day 1 30-May-14 Fly to Rome
Day 2 31-May-14 Rome – Genoa by train
Day 3 1-Jun-14 Genoa: Custom procedure for bike importing
Day 4 2-Jun-14 Genoa – Cannes: 200 km
Day 5 3-Jun-14 Cannes - Gap (the Napoleon reoute)
Day 6 4-Jun-14 Gap - Grenoble
Day 7 5-Jun-14 Grenoble -Lyon- Beaune: 310km
Day 8 6-Jun-14 Beaune – Paris: 330 km
Day 9 7-Jun-14 Paris tour
Day 10 8-Jun-14 Paris – Nancy: 350km
Day 11 9-Jun-14 Nancy– Zurich: 320 km
Day 12 10-Jun-14 Zurich tour
Day 13 11-Jun-14 Zurich – Milan: 300 km
Day 14 12-Jun-14 Milan – Mantova: 200 km. Vespa World Day: 12June
Day 15 13-Jun-14 Mantova: Vespa World Day: 13June
Day 16 14-Jun-14 Mantova: Vespa World Day: 14June
Day 17 15-Jun-14 Mantova: Vespa World Day: 15June
Day 18 16-Jun-14 Mantova – Florence: 200 km
Day 19 17-Jun-14 Florence - Rome: 300 km
Day 20 18-Jun-14 Rome tour
Day 21 19-Jun-14 Rome tour
Day 22 20-Jun-14 Flyback to Hanoi
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:32 PM   #27
flei
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This looks like an amazing trip! I hope you post a ride report of it and I hope you enjoy Europe as much as I enjoyed my two weeks in Hanoi and Northern Vietnam!
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:37 PM   #28
GvG
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I think your route might be overly ambitious.

According to this blog your average speed whille driving will be below 35km/h in the Alps.
These guys did a 1200km rally in 6 days and the writer often arrived at the destination when it was dark. That suggests an average speed of around 20km/h.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:44 AM   #29
MichaelJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamcaumoi View Post
Dear Adv-Riders,

Below is our revised route map after consulted with all of you guy here.
11 riding days and about 3,000 kms. It's do-able, but you will be tired.

I would really consider not going to Paris. Paris will cost you 4-5 days of your time.

If you really want to see Paris, I'd do it on another trip and just fly in and out like a "normal" tourist.

Maybe spend one of those days in Pontedera, Italy and visit the Piaggio factory and museum.

Whatever you do, have fun, enjoy the trip, take lots of pictures and you owe us a ride report when you get back home.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:51 AM   #30
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Many consecutive +300km days. 8-12 hours in the saddle, stops or sightseeing not included.
And the risk of a hold-up (technical problems, accident, wealth) increaes with the size of the group.

The Paris detour makes the trip arduous.
Perhaps leave your scooters in your hotel near the Alps and visit Paris by train/metro.
Even Marseille-Paris takes only 3 hours (from Lyon 2 hours and Dijon 1.5 hours).

I'd prefer Lucerne (small town in spectacular landscape) to Zurich (capital) and head to Milan/Italy via Grimsel pass. At the nearby Rhone Glacier you can take a short walk to the glacier.
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