ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-09-2013, 03:35 PM   #1
dimikk OP
Adventurer
 
dimikk's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Jasper, IN
Oddometer: 14
Oil leak

Hi all. It's rusky here.

I just got an r90/6 a few weeks ago and now decided to do a little maintenance, oil change etc. Wanted to check a points gap. Took a front cover off and saw that:



Oily wiring wrap and oil on the walls. Then i started to worry.
I am not familiar with airheads at all. I have two old Hondas and bmw seems complicated compare to them.

I didn't plan on doing that kind of work, only taking the alternator off scares me. But oh well... shit's gotta be fixed.

Before i started digging the manuals does anybody have an idea where is the oil coming from? something that can be replaced easy, without splitting the cases? Anybody
dimikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #2
dimikk OP
Adventurer
 
dimikk's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Jasper, IN
Oddometer: 14
oh, by the way...
it seems like i have electronic points.
Also coils don't look like stock either:
(good/bad???)

dimikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #3
dimikk OP
Adventurer
 
dimikk's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Jasper, IN
Oddometer: 14
one more question..

red/white wires are disconnected from the condenser. Is that normal with the elctronic points?

dimikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 03:50 PM   #4
AntonLargiader
Beastly Adventurer
 
AntonLargiader's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Oddometer: 4,191
You don't have points (points are mechanical), so the condenser is not used. You have an aftermarket electronic ignition.

The oil looks like a relatively minor leak. If you want, you can go through the bike and eliminate them all; the pushrod tubes look like they could use some attention.
__________________
Anton Largiader largiader.com BMWRA.org
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 04:16 PM   #5
Stan_R80/7
Beastly Gnarly
 
Stan_R80/7's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: VA
Oddometer: 1,274
It looks like the oil leak is from the front timing cover alternator shaft seal. That is a $9.00 seal: http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Oil...mwseal-011.htm

It is in your best interest to get a manual(s) (Clymer and Hayes are common) and read up on the bike before taking it apart. BMW's (like any bike) have some quirks that can be a bit costly if ignored. One is using a hardened bolt to remove the rotor when replacing the front timing cover seal: http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/pro...tor642tool.htm

Good luck and have fun!
Stan_R80/7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 04:53 PM   #6
dimikk OP
Adventurer
 
dimikk's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Jasper, IN
Oddometer: 14
oh, crap... pushrods do need some attention, don't they. one surprise after another.. Thank you guys for the answers!

also discovered this dent :



doesn't seem deadly. does it?
dimikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 06:17 PM   #7
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,953
Leave the dent alone for now. It doesn't look like a problem.

The push rod tube seals are a likely project. Requires about a hundred dollars in parts and a torque wrench that clicks at 25 ft/lbs. You can save a little money by skipping the head gaskets by not taking the heads off the cylinders, I don't like to do it that way. (BTW, those seals don't look so bad to me, but my bike is dirtier than most others)

The seal under the alternator rotor may be bad but it doesn't look like that oil is from there. Then again if not from the crank seal then where? Maybe clean it up and try to trace where the oil is from?

If you are going to take the alternator apart to fix the seal or just investigate be aware, the rotor is pulled by a special tool. It is possible to make your own tool but the operation involves putting a Hardened stud into the thread hole on the front of the crankshaft. Failure to use the proper, HARDENED, material can ruin your day. Directions are in the Clymer's or Hayne's manuals.

It appears you have a Dyna III dual plug set up for ignition. Should work fine. The spark plugs for top or bottom are probably not the same size?

Careful when you put that cover back on. The wire through the rubber hose doesn't look properly isolated from the spinning advance unit. This is a picture of a points set up but the idea of the loose wire is the same. There is supposed to be a special washer on the bottom screw to help hold the wire away from the spinning advance unit.



I have destroyed several points wires because of this so maybe I'm over sensitive.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 07:03 PM   #8
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimikk View Post
one more question..

red/white wires are disconnected from the condenser. Is that normal with the elctronic points?
Unlesss you have a points plate as a backup for the electronic ignition, the condensor is useless. may as well ditch it.

Those look like auto spark plug wires. Carbon core and non-resistor. Check the plugs. if they are resistor plugs you must continue to use resistor. if they are not, check the wires and make sure you have about 5000 ohms resistance in each of the four.

The dual plug setup is a major modification. Costly.

The points compartment seal looks good, so you can ignore the oil in the front cover for the time being.

Also looks like a pretty new rotor. Nice.

I would be concerned with the dent in the push rod tube. You want to make sure it isn't rubbing the push rod and that the push rod isn't bent. You can sneak the pushrod out without tearing everything down. Back off the 4 nuts holding the rocker arms. The studs these nuts are on go all the way into the block and hold the whole cylinder/head assemby to the block. Then just remove the one rocker arm, slide out the pushrod and check for scuffing and straitness. Then put it all back and torque the 4 head bolts. The cylinder bases will now weep oil and the head gaskets might leak some too. Scru it, new gaskets when you pull the top end to do the push rod tube seals (and maybe a new pushrod tube.).

If you find scuffing or bent rod, then go ahead and take the exhaust and head off, and remove the top end for repairs. Not a big deal. You need an exhaust nut wrench. You should have at least a CLymers already.


Also pull the top cover (two bolts, and air cleaner cover (one bolt) and look around. looks like the plastic air screen on the intake is missing. See how many leaves are in there. look for oil leaks in the breather system. Look for a K+N air filter and if found, ditch it.

Cap your gas lines unless you like digging junk out of your carbs. Try tinfoil and a rubbah band.

Pulling the alternator is trivial. You need a puller bolt. Never use that bolt to turn the engine unless you have the spark plugs out.

Read Snowbum
Plaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 10:50 PM   #9
dimikk OP
Adventurer
 
dimikk's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Jasper, IN
Oddometer: 14
Bluhduh

Good eye, Plaka - no screen on the air intake.

I have replaced the air filter a week ago and put a K&N one, is there something wrong with them? Damn... I've put a K&N oil filter too...

So i've traced the oily-looking harness up to a starter area and didn't find any leaks in there. Then i noticed that the harness wrap is oily all the way up where it was sticking up in the air and not touching anything, so i took it off the machine.


It's coated evenly with some sticky crap that apparently was melting when engine's hot. Strange. I've looked everywhere - no oil, just hardened gummy nastiness on the walls (only where the harness sleeving was touching) that's hard to get off your hands also. Scared the crap out of me, but i'm happy i don't have to pull the magneto


Disston, Yeah, i have Dyna III ignition and different size plugs on the bottom that i can't find a socket for...

Does anyone know what does "S" on the NGK plugs mean after the plug type?
Also i have a spare Bosh that was laying in the toolbox - it has an R0 mark. Resistor type?

(will be checking the pushrod sunday.........)
dimikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 11:06 PM   #10
Kai Ju
Beastly Adventurer
 
Kai Ju's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: So Cal
Oddometer: 1,778
Spark plug info

This will tell you everything you need to know about your spark plugs:

http://ngksparkplugs.com/docs/tech/d...bols_plugs.pdf

The main site will explain a whole lot more:

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...w.asp?mode=nml
Kai Ju is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:37 AM   #11
Horsehockey
A GPS? Huh?
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 328
A note of caution: when you removed the front cover to access all of this, I trust you disconnected the battery negative cable (or the bike didn't have a battery in it at the time). This is one of the airhead basics: before removing or reinstalling a front cover, be sure the battery is disconnected. Otherwise you run a high risk of shorting and frying your diode board....about $100 last time I checked.
Horsehockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 07:02 AM   #12
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,953
It sounds like the oil leak is blow by from the turkey valve. The engine produces compression in the case also because the pistons are bouncing up and down and this is kept at a small positive value by the blow by valve. The excess pressure is passed to the intake of the right side cylinder;



This shows the crankcase breather valve as it is installed except the cover is removed. There is a hose that goes from the cover to the right side intake. This is an original breather valve also called the Turkey Valve because of the noise they make at idle. There is a more modern Reed type valve to replace this. If you try to buy another one of the disk types they will give you a Reed type.

So check the condition. Look under the cover. Is the disk cracked or broken? If so you will have to replace it. Is there oil puddled in the top of the engine case? There may be or should be a drain hole that may get clogged.

But ultimately there may be too much blow by. If this is the case then the engine is due for serious rebuilding work and parts.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 07:08 AM   #13
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 8,953
Actually the breather valve in the picture above has been taken apart in preparation of pulling it, it looks like. The next pic is a Turkey valve as it will appear once the cover is removed;



Clean everything up and use a new gasket. Clean the drain hole and it will stay oil dripless for awhile. Maybe quite awhile.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #14
supershaft
because I can
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Oddometer: 8,796
It's going to be a miracle if that pushrod isn't rubbing on that bent pushrod tube. I would spin the pushrod and see if it's bent. What year R90. R90's had significant changes done to them every model year so the year and even the date of manufacture comes in handy when discussing them. I can't tell from the photo if those are early or later pushrod tubes? If you remove one rocker arm just to get the pushrod out. Do not loosen all four head nuts. It will only break what is left of the oil seal at the cylinder/case junction. Just loosen the ones holding that rocker arm on.

I think that 'oil' is just gunk from the phase wire cover. Those phase wires rarely ever get hard from heat so they probably do not need to be replaced.

I would replace the head gaskets. It looks like they are at least weeping.

Look for a K+N filter. Too bad it doesn't have one. They filter WAY better than the stock filters when they are maintained properly which isn't very hard at all to do although almost every time I see a photo of one here it needs oiling!

Do yourself a favor and do not read snowbum. At least until you have enough experience to recognize the mountains of BS there. I go there sometimes for some info but I pity the fools that take that stuff for gospel.

supershaft screwed with this post 11-10-2013 at 02:58 PM
supershaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 03:55 PM   #15
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimikk View Post
Good eye, Plaka - no screen on the air intake.

I have replaced the air filter a week ago and put a K&N one, is there something wrong with them? Damn... I've put a K&N oil filter too...

So i've traced the oily-looking harness up to a starter area and didn't find any leaks in there. Then i noticed that the harness wrap is oily all the way up where it was sticking up in the air and not touching anything, so i took it off the machine.


It's coated evenly with some sticky crap that apparently was melting when engine's hot. Strange. I've looked everywhere - no oil, just hardened gummy nastiness on the walls (only where the harness sleeving was touching) that's hard to get off your hands also. Scared the crap out of me, but i'm happy i don't have to pull the magneto


Disston, Yeah, i have Dyna III ignition and different size plugs on the bottom that i can't find a socket for...

Does anyone know what does "S" on the NGK plugs mean after the plug type?
Also i have a spare Bosh that was laying in the toolbox - it has an R0 mark. Resistor type?

(will be checking the pushrod sunday.........)
Wiring looks OK. Get the green corrosion off the connections. Dust the wire in talcum powder repeatedly to kill the sticky and put it back. It's a fiberglass sleeve. I got a couple around, it's impregnated with something. Use citrus hand cleaner on your hands and maybe try it on the block. Other wise mineral spirits on the block. No solvent on the wire.

The crankcase breather is at the rear of the block. Don't mess with it unless it's broken. The hose might leak, the actual breather cap is gasketed down and rarely does. The thing can break. Makes a distinctive sound and isn't a "stopper". Newer bikes have a different setup with a hose at the front of the block and the breather in the same location at the rear. Has very little oil in it.

Return the K&N. Act indignant and tell them you tried it but it didn't fit! (A common complaint.). They filter very poorly and flow more. So you get a lot of grit fed to your cylinder walls which then ends up in your oil. oil filters clog faster, more wear, shorter oil change intervals. The throttle opening on your CV carbs is controlled by the vacuum in the carb venturi, not by the butterfly connected to your right wrist. You open the butterfly, vacuum changes and the diaphragm opens and closes the throttle slide. More flow = less vacuum = less slide opening for what you are doing at the bar. So no benefit. The paper filters are pretty cheap and last long.

Slide carbs have the slide directly connected to your wrist.

The leaves look innocent lying there. They are not lying there with the motor running. You can fab a new screen out of 1/8" mesh (no finer) hardware cloth. Just wedges in the vertical opening of the rubber intake like the original. This time of year you get some leaves anyway. Clean every so often.

When replacing the air cleaner cover, put the left on (you are correct to not remove the right one!), put the bolt in, Slide two finger in the right side carb opening and guide the tip of the bolt into place.

Slight scuffing is normal on pushrods, all four of them, in the same place.


For me, oil weep = gets dirty. Oil leak = washes the dirt off.
Plaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014