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Old 11-12-2013, 11:15 AM   #31
Pokie
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Either way, it needs to be addressed before going any further.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by dimikk View Post





so replacing the tube definetily. But the push rod surprisingly straight. Well, may be a tiny bit. Worth spending another $50?
Nope--unless you are planning on very high rpm operation and then you need valve spring re-shimming.

Remove the burrs with a scraper.

Those are new type alloy rods. What year the engine again?

Buy a factory pushrod drift. it's cheap. Instructions for making one are in the Clymer. Not worth it, the factory tool is too cheap and it's good steel---the geometry is more subtle than it looks.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I don't think Pokie has read the entire thread. I have found numerous head gaskets installed backwards and none of them held a pushrod up like that. It's the bent pushrod tube. The same thing that bent and scared thusly that pushrod.
You're right, the gasket was fine - it's the bump on the inside of the tube that was holding it. Didn't realize the dent was that deep until looked inside. Couldn't take a picture, the flash light was on the way.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:49 AM   #34
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You're right, the gasket was fine - it's the bump on the inside of the tube that was holding it. Didn't realize the dent was that deep until looked inside. Couldn't take a picture, the flash light was on the way.
To replace the tube you pull the jug. You can salvage the tube you have with the jug off. Just cut out the dent with a grinder and patch the hole. braze on a brass sheet (hobby store) with a mapp torch, sheet metal and PC7 or just a piece of inner tube and some sheet metal and hose clamps. it's an oil conduit, not structural. You need enough intact to press on the seal, that's all. So you could fix it and put it together immediately. Because you didn't replace gaskets and seals they will weep more. Fix later, replace the tube with new and all that. You can have it back up in a couple hours.


Good chance the whole tube is bent. See if you have a straitedge that will fit to check.. But I bet with the dent out of there it won't hit the pushrod.

The ideal on pushrod straitness is no-daylight. You can check a "tiny" bend with feeler gauges. What are the results? Go/no-go feeler gauges best. Another cheap buy.

Plaka screwed with this post 11-12-2013 at 11:56 AM
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Nope--unless you are planning on very high rpm operation and then you need valve spring re-shimming.

Remove the burrs with a scraper.

Those are new type alloy rods. What year the engine again?

Buy a factory pushrod drift. it's cheap. Instructions for making one are in the Clymer. Not worth it, the factory tool is too cheap and it's good steel---the geometry is more subtle than it looks.
the bike was made in December of 1975. I think the change in pushrods was made in September '75.

Now I have another problem - i forgot to take a picture before unplugging the wires from the diode plate. There is a red, green and black wires and i don't know in which order they go. My clymer colorful wiring diagram doesn't help either - these 3 wires are shown in black there....
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimikk View Post
the bike was made in December of 1975. I think the change in pushrods was made in September '75.

Now I have another problem - i forgot to take a picture before unplugging the wires from the diode plate. There is a red, green and black wires and i don't know in which order they go. My clymer colorful wiring diagram doesn't help either - these 3 wires are shown in black there....
According to Rick Jones' handy manual:
"On reassembly, the three AC supply wires, from the alternator,
can be connected in any order
. The original location is unimportant."
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimikk View Post
the bike was made in December of 1975. I think the change in pushrods was made in September '75.

Now I have another problem - i forgot to take a picture before unplugging the wires from the diode plate. There is a red, green and black wires and i don't know in which order they go. My clymer colorful wiring diagram doesn't help either - these 3 wires are shown in black there....
It would really help if people would stick with what they have experience with instead of adding more and more all too common idiotnet myth and general BS?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that none of it really NEEDS fixing. If Rommel and the North Afrika Corp was after me I would fix it like Plaka is suggesting. Otherwise, I would fix it right. Motorcycling, when done right, has enough REAL drama. No need to invent the stuff unless you are one of that type that never gets out of the garage for making all your drama there. Replace that pushrod if it's bent and I suspect it is. They flex enough in normal operation as they are when they are straight to start with.

The factory pushrod tube drift is for the earlier style pushrod tubes. NOT your setup. Plaka has me and a lot of others here that might teach him something on his ignore list so he never learns but just in case anyone is still listening to him . . . . You will, however, need a drift to knock the pushrod tube out and back in of the cylinder.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:55 PM   #38
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You can also salvage that pushrods tube with a tightly sized drift punch or brass rod with a rounded end so the dent is eased out. This is how we remove dents from jet engine bleed air ducts. If you can find a polished steel ball just smaller diameter than the pushrod tube you can drive it through with a wooden or plastic dowel of suitable length. Just be careful not to put a lip on the tube ends or you'll end up with a leaker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
To replace the tube you pull the jug. You can salvage the tube you have with the jug off. Just cut out the dent with a grinder and patch the hole. braze on a brass sheet (hobby store) with a mapp torch, sheet metal and PC7 or just a piece of inner tube and some sheet metal and hose clamps. it's an oil conduit, not structural. You need enough intact to press on the seal, that's all. So you could fix it and put it together immediately. Because you didn't replace gaskets and seals they will weep more. Fix later, replace the tube with new and all that. You can have it back up in a couple hours.


Good chance the whole tube is bent. See if you have a straitedge that will fit to check.. But I bet with the dent out of there it won't hit the pushrod.

The ideal on pushrod straitness is no-daylight. You can check a "tiny" bend with feeler gauges. What are the results? Go/no-go feeler gauges best. Another cheap buy.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ReconnaissanceMan View Post
This is how we remove dents from jet engine bleed air ducts.
We do?
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:23 PM   #40
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Such a ball would be found here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-steel-balls/=pcpv00

Done carefully, the tube can remain in the cylinder. Good luck!
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ReconnaissanceMan View Post
You can also salvage that pushrods tube with a tightly sized drift punch or brass rod with a rounded end so the dent is eased out. This is how we remove dents from jet engine bleed air ducts. If you can find a polished steel ball just smaller diameter than the pushrod tube you can drive it through with a wooden or plastic dowel of suitable length. Just be careful not to put a lip on the tube ends or you'll end up with a leaker.
Iffy idea.

The metal at the dent is harder than the metal on the opposite side of the tube. it is also stretched, it doesn't shink. You need a pretty sophisticated mandrel to get it back, and the odds of bending the tube are pretty good. You can anneal the dent and go for it, but it starts getting elaborate.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:12 PM   #42
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We do?
Not that it matters anyway because I highly suspect that the interference fit between the cylinder and tube is not tight enough for that to work coming or going.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
To replace the tube you pull the jug. You can salvage the tube you have with the jug off. Just cut out the dent with a grinder and patch the hole. braze on a brass sheet (hobby store) with a mapp torch, sheet metal and PC7 or just a piece of inner tube and some sheet metal and hose clamps. it's an oil conduit, not structural. You need enough intact to press on the seal, that's all. So you could fix it and put it together immediately. Because you didn't replace gaskets and seals they will weep more. Fix later, replace the tube with new and all that. You can have it back up in a couple hours.


Good chance the whole tube is bent. See if you have a straitedge that will fit to check.. But I bet with the dent out of there it won't hit the pushrod.

The ideal on pushrod straitness is no-daylight. You can check a "tiny" bend with feeler gauges. What are the results? Go/no-go feeler gauges best. Another cheap buy.

WTF?!


dimmick, forget the King of Kludges' suggestions.

I wondered about the pushrod when you first posted photos; it's compromised, it's disassembled-fix it right now or do it again later,imho.

As for the tube drifting, that was on earlier models and perhaps even then was a questionable approach. You can remove the existing and install new ones or hire it out.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #44
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WTF?!


dimmick, forget the King of Kludges' suggestions.

I wondered about the pushrod when you first posted photos; it's compromised, it's disassembled-fix it right now or do it again later,imho.

As for the tube drifting, that was on earlier models and perhaps even then was a questionable approach. You can remove the existing and install new ones or hire it out.
Some avoid it. Others will poke a stick in it and stir or worse!
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:10 PM   #45
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I'm getting a new tube and a pushrod along with the gaskets/seals, just to be sure. Not really sure what is the drift thing that you guys are talking about. My russian brain doesn't translate it to anything that makes sense. Is it a tool for taking those tubes out?
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