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Old 03-18-2014, 08:40 AM   #1501
RememberTheFallen
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Yooperbikemike's 2014 MotoGP Thread

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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
So Ducati can stay a factory option since they did not win a race and be allowed the 12 engines they can still improve upon withe 24liters of fuel?
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:53 AM   #1502
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Originally Posted by RememberTheFallen View Post
So Ducati can stay a factory option since they did not win a race and be allowed the 12 engines they can still improve upon withe 24liters of fuel?

The 2014 season isn't over yet. It's *possible* that Ducati could muster the combination of win/podiums to put them in the restricted category. You can argue all you want about how likely that is, but there you are...
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:01 AM   #1503
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Yooperbikemike's 2014 MotoGP Thread

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Originally Posted by yooperbikemike View Post
The 2014 season isn't over yet. It's *possible* that Ducati could muster the combination of win/podiums to put them in the restricted category. You can argue all you want about how likely that is, but there you are...
Do they get to keep their software and improve upon that too? If so, it looks like it would be nice to be on a Ducati for at least the first part of the season. Seems they might run into the restriction area (with podiums) pretty quickly if they get 12 motors, their ECU, 24 liters of fuel, AND the open class soft tires! At least it will be interesting.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:06 AM   #1504
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How many motors has Ducati been forced to use the last few years? Wasn't it six? I'm sure they can plan on only using 9 and be perfectly safe.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:16 AM   #1505
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http://motomatters.com/news/2014/03/...4_spec_so.html
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:41 AM   #1506
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It appears to me havin extra fuel,more engines and softer tires...don't mean a hill of beanz if'n ya can't steer the damn thing...
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:56 AM   #1507
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Originally Posted by Clem Kevin View Post
How many motors has Ducati been forced to use the last few years? Wasn't it six? I'm sure they can plan on only using 9 and be perfectly safe.
But that number could dwindle if in-season Ducati modifications necessitate moving engine mounting points.

Imagine that by mid-season frame modifications require that engines 8 and 9 be modified also. Then- due to the newest mods, the bikes improve (miracles do happen) and Ducati wins a race. Goodbye engines 10, 11 & 12.

Now what? Go back to the older (slower) engines and frames?

Horna is a mess.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:51 AM   #1508
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Originally Posted by DC2wheels View Post
But that number could dwindle if in-season Ducati modifications necessitate moving engine mounting points.

Imagine that by mid-season frame modifications require that engines 8 and 9 be modified also. Then- due to the newest mods, the bikes improve (miracles do happen) and Ducati wins a race. Goodbye engines 10, 11 & 12.

Now what? Go back to the older (slower) engines and frames?

Horna is a mess.
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Originally Posted by MotoMatters
If Ducati - for it is mainly Ducati to which these rules apply, as they are currently the only manufacturer who are eligible at the moment - score 1 win, 2 second place finishes or 3 third places during dry races, then all bikes entered by Ducati will have their fuel cut from 24 to 22 liters for each race. Should Ducati win 3 races in the dry, they will also lose use of the softer rear tires which the Open category entries can use.
Emphasis added, but if I'm reading this correctly, the latest decision means that engine allocation would not be affected in the current year, but fuel and tire allocations would be.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:27 PM   #1509
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Any win this season other than by MM, VR, DP, JLo, BS, PE, SB, AB is not legitimate.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:52 PM   #1510
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Is it just me, or do all these new MotoGP rules remind you of the rules for playing "Whackbat" on Wes Anderson's "The Fantastic Mr Fox"?

http://youtu.be/IjTuypwXFOg

The latest rules (yesterday? today? an hour ago?) make Whackbat look easy to understand.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:55 PM   #1511
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Any win this season other than by MM, VR, DP, JLo, BS, PE, SB, AB is not legitimate.
Maybe that's the way to look at it; another way is Ducati seeing a grossly mislabeled price tag and insisting on paying that price ("this Rolex says $50 and that's what I intend to pay!").
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #1512
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Originally Posted by Mike Yanagita View Post
Maybe that's the way to look at it; another way is Ducati seeing a grossly mislabeled price tag and insisting on paying that price ("this Rolex says $50 and that's what I intend to pay!").
I think any race team would do the same if they were in the same position. Anything within the rules to gain an advantage. I think the thing that people object to is the rules changing after the fact.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:43 PM   #1513
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I think the thing that people object to is the rules changing after the fact.
It's messy I agree. But if Crutchlow or Dovi won the championship, there'd be greater objections, and not just from fans. It would be chalked up to fuel and tire advantages, not rider or engineering skill.

I just hope Ezpeleta doesn't blink before 2016 and really does bring MotoGP back to a single class again. Question is whether Honda will leave if they have to run a control ECU.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:12 PM   #1514
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Originally Posted by Mike Yanagita View Post
It's messy I agree. But if Crutchlow or Dovi won the championship, there'd be greater objections, and not just from fans. It would be chalked up to fuel and tire advantages, not rider or engineering skill.

I just hope Ezpeleta doesn't blink before 2016 and really does bring MotoGP back to a single class again. Question is whether Honda will leave if they have to run a control ECU.
If you can exploit the rules to your advantage that *is* superior engineering. But Honda sometimes talks about the spirit of the rules so I guess that's not everybody's idea of fair play.

There was a guy who raced in SoCal in the 70s. Every one *knew* he was building cheater motors. But tear down after tear down proved fruitless. I never found out what he was doing but I had to give him credit for figuring out a way to get an extra 5% HP on every one.

The ECU does seem to be the key to the whole thing. If the only casualty from the spec ECU rule was honda it wouldn't really bother me.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:35 PM   #1515
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If you can exploit the rules to your advantage that *is* superior engineering.
I dunno. I think Ducati had a last-minute sex change operation to compete in a category they wouldn't otherwise have been able to. That didn't suddenly make them better athletes (or engineers). Dorna reserves the right to keep the series from devolving into a complete farce (which is worse than a partial farce).
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