ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-27-2014, 12:19 PM   #2071
beechum1
Beastly Adventurer
 
beechum1's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Not home in Tijuana
Oddometer: 8,104
We'll put.
__________________
Rally Moto Kit /// Vendor Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingdutchman177 View Post
I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
beechum1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 03:08 PM   #2072
Montek
Eternal Noob
 
Montek's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Where ever the motobike is
Oddometer: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Just remember that Vale had luck on his side for the better part of 10 years.

I would equate Rossi as taking over where Doohan left off, dominating a field of also rans.

To me, Marquez has jumped into the deep end of "the Aliens" and is dominating them. The only unknown is Stoner.

Doohan and Rossi can't help that their rivals weren't up to the task. But Marquez is dominating the dominators.

MM is loaded with talent-guy can ride and doesn't crash. But, he is also on a clearly superior bike. I believe in talent winning races, but, races like cota a couple weeks ago-1st place is 20 seconds ahead of 3rd place, there is more than just talent seperating MM from the rest of the group!! He was able to absolutely walk away from JLo today-yamaha has nuttin to give to keep up!!
__________________
Adventure for a Lifetime
I may be a poor rider, but my bike sure is SLOW
Montek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 04:10 PM   #2073
DogBoy
Not a Gnarly Adventurer
 
DogBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Just remember that Vale had luck on his side for the better part of 10 years.

I would equate Rossi as taking over where Doohan left off, dominating a field of also rans.

To me, Marquez has jumped into the deep end of "the Aliens" and is dominating them. The only unknown is Stoner.

Doohan and Rossi can't help that their rivals weren't up to the task. But Marquez is dominating the dominators.
I'll buy this argument for Doohan but not Rossi.

There was plenty of talent during the early 4-stroke era. Some of those riders were only at their peak in MotoGP for a few years but Gibernau, Barros, Biaggi and others were very fast and very tough competitors. There also wasn't such a gap between the factory and satellite bikes as there is today. Satellite riders actually won races which just doesn't happen any more. Rossi certainly dominated the era. That domination was from talent rather than luck or racing against a bunch of chumps.

-signed not a Rossi fanboy.
__________________
"I were riding so fast, I were sucking rabbits out of the hedges" IOM TT racer Guy Martin - Thanks to rallybug
DogBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #2074
Drif10
Accredited Jackass
 
Drif10's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Gates of Moscow
Oddometer: 46,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
I'll buy this argument for Doohan but not Rossi.

There was plenty of talent during the early 4-stroke era. Some of those riders were only at their peak in MotoGP for a few years but Gibernau, Barros, Biaggi and others were very fast and very tough competitors. There also wasn't such a gap between the factory and satellite bikes as there is today. Satellite riders actually won races which just doesn't happen any more. Rossi certainly dominated the era. That domination was from talent rather than luck or racing against a bunch of chumps.

-signed not a Rossi fanboy.
Agree, but the current crop of aliens are, to me, a step above those guys. If Rossi had 99 and 26 to run against, I don't think he would have won as much.

And I am a Rossi fan.
__________________
I guess your get up and go needs a coffee. - Drif5
Drif10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 07:31 PM   #2075
twotyred
Practising Recedivist
 
twotyred's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Bruthen Victoria
Oddometer: 2,002
The first few laps were SENSATIONAL!!

I thought that a few riders in the lead bunch might have ended up in the gravel trap.. I was on the edge of my seat. How easily did Marc move through the bunch to get on the back of Jorge. I think Marc is maturing each race, once he caught Jorge, he bided his time for a while before making his move.
__________________
If you succeed at first...don't look surprised!!

More enthusiasm than ability!!
twotyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 07:44 PM   #2076
cogitate
Beastly Adventurer
 
cogitate's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: North of the Border, CA
Oddometer: 4,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
Agree, but the current crop of aliens are, to me, a step above those guys. If Rossi had 99 and 26 to run against, I don't think he would have won as much.

And I am a Rossi fan.
However, Vale did have those guys to run against, and until he broke his leg, he won a lot. True, Jorge and Dani were not at the top of their game at that time, but I look at them as eclipsing Rossi because of his two lost years at Ducati. They had to raise their game because Rossi was so good.

If Rossi stayed at Yamaha, I bet he would have been champion at least one of the years since.
__________________
bikeless. And doing ok with it. For now.

"The Howtostretch Handbook", a guide to stretching, free download
cogitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 08:44 PM   #2077
Mike Yanagita
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Mike Yanagita's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: So. Cal.
Oddometer: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
The only unknown is Stoner.
yeah but ... stoner finished 3rd in his second year on the honda. it's not like stoner was a giant astride the grid.

some might argue that -- like rossi in 2010 -- stoner broke a bone and put himself out of a likely championship; otoh, they both got injured when they weren't at the top of the standings, so the argument is a little weak.
Mike Yanagita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 09:33 PM   #2078
mdubya
Right Brigade
 
mdubya's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: western, MD
Oddometer: 7,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
I'll buy this argument for Doohan but not Rossi.

There was plenty of talent during the early 4-stroke era. Some of those riders were only at their peak in MotoGP for a few years but Gibernau, Barros, Biaggi and others were very fast and very tough competitors. There also wasn't such a gap between the factory and satellite bikes as there is today. Satellite riders actually won races which just doesn't happen any more. Rossi certainly dominated the era. That domination was from talent rather than luck or racing against a bunch of chumps.

-signed not a Rossi fanboy.
Doohan dusted Biaggi, Barros, and KRJR.

Once Pedrosa, Stoner and Lorenzo made the scene, Rossi was no longer dominant and even lost to the likes of Nicky Hayden.

What Marquez is doing is the equivalent of showing up in the Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz, and Doohan era and beating them all in his rookie year.

Doohan didn't win Championships until they were all gone, or in the case of Schwantz, all but gone.
__________________
+0
mdubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 09:45 PM   #2079
mdubya
Right Brigade
 
mdubya's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: western, MD
Oddometer: 7,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Yanagita View Post
yeah but ... stoner finished 3rd in his second year on the honda. it's not like stoner was a giant astride the grid.

some might argue that -- like rossi in 2010 -- stoner broke a bone and put himself out of a likely championship; otoh, they both got injured when they weren't at the top of the standings, so the argument is a little weak.
What ever you want to tell yourself.

Stoner's path to the top was uphill in both directions and against all odds. He wasn't supposed to be the one. Sheer talent and will took him there. The path was virtually paved for the likes of Pedrosa, Rossi, and Lorenzo. Not to take anything away from any of them, but credit to Stoner where it is due. He was a second class citizen, at best; persona non grata, at worst. I don't care if you like him or not.
__________________
+0
mdubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 01:16 AM   #2080
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,824
I give a lot of credit to Stoner. Would have been really great to see him vs. Marquez on factory bikes.

He was on another level, especially on the Ducati. But also the year he won the title with them, there were several factors, that all contributed to this result - Stoner still being the single most important ingredient. But, it was that one year, and after that, a long downhill for Ducati, even when Stoner was still there.
__________________
Countries ridden • FIN • SWE • NOR • DK • EE • LV • LT • POL • SK • HU • RO • BG • GR • IT • AT • DE • CZ • CH • SMR • LIE • NL • BE • FR • AND • ES • GBR • LUX • SI • HR • BIH • SRB • MK • TR • IR • PAK • IND • TH • KH • LA • MY • ID • AUS • CR • USA • ZA • LS • SWZ • MZ • NA • BW • ZM • ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 02:22 AM   #2081
gco0307
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Dubvegas in the NSW Central West
Oddometer: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
I'll buy this argument for Doohan but not Rossi.

There was plenty of talent during the early 4-stroke era. Some of those riders were only at their peak in MotoGP for a few years but Gibernau, Barros, Biaggi and others were very fast and very tough competitors. There also wasn't such a gap between the factory and satellite bikes as there is today. Satellite riders actually won races which just doesn't happen any more. Rossi certainly dominated the era. That domination was from talent rather than luck or racing against a bunch of chumps.

-signed not a Rossi fanboy.

I won't buy it for Doohan as it is often overlooked (forgotten even) that Doohan was dominating Rainey, Schwantz, Gardner, Sarron and many more right up until his broken leg accident at Assen that then cost him the remainder of that season (remember that he showed up to race when he could not walk) and the following season (Rainey's tragic season/Schwantz championship) before he started his run of five straight.

Rossi on the other hand had an injured Criville, a fit but erratic Capirossi, Gibernau and the perennial flawed genius of Biaggi, then came Stoner, Lorenzo and the recent history.

To me, Rossi had an easier time than had Doohan (not to diminish as you can only race those that are against you) as well as the impacts of moving to four stroke to which he adapted but which ruined the careers of McCoy, Biaggi, Abe etc

gco0307 screwed with this post 04-28-2014 at 02:27 AM
gco0307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 04:29 AM   #2082
5th-Elefant
Beastly Adventurer
 
5th-Elefant's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
He was on another level, especially on the Ducati.
He steered with the rear, like MM. I bet MM would do just fine on the Ducati.
5th-Elefant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:05 AM   #2083
Bleemus
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Winhall, Vermont
Oddometer: 1,055
Great first few laps but a predictable ending. The factory Hondas are just too fast right now. In the hands of MM it is unbeatable if he minimizes his mistakes. He is riding smarter and smarter now that he knows his bike can pass at will.

And Alvaro Crashtista is likely going to find himself without a ride until he can keep his ass of the pavement.

Poor Nicky.
Bleemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:17 AM   #2084
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,824
MM93 is really a delight to watch on track, even on the telly. The way he backs it in, rubs the elbows hanging off the bike, and in the process saves about 2-3 certain crashes each fast lap just ΄business as usual΄, is guaranteed entertainment. And if there΄s a hard scrap for positions until the last corner, woohooo just bring it on.. yet he will be all smiles in parc ferme. All hail to Lorenzo & Pedrosa, they have the speed, too, but much less the entertainment value. Kinda like Rossi in his prime. Dorna must really be over the moon about this guy. And Honda are probably prepared to spend half their racing budget to keep Marquez. They should be.
__________________
Countries ridden • FIN • SWE • NOR • DK • EE • LV • LT • POL • SK • HU • RO • BG • GR • IT • AT • DE • CZ • CH • SMR • LIE • NL • BE • FR • AND • ES • GBR • LUX • SI • HR • BIH • SRB • MK • TR • IR • PAK • IND • TH • KH • LA • MY • ID • AUS • CR • USA • ZA • LS • SWZ • MZ • NA • BW • ZM • ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:42 AM   #2085
Dunewar
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Dunewar's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Ostend Belgium
Oddometer: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
MM93 is really a delight to watch on track, even on the telly. The way he backs it in, rubs the elbows hanging off the bike, and in the process saves about 2-3 certain crashes each fast lap just ΄business as usual΄, is guaranteed entertainment. And if there΄s a hard scrap for positions until the last corner, woohooo just bring it on.. yet he will be all smiles in parc ferme. All hail to Lorenzo & Pedrosa, they have the speed, too, but much less the entertainment value. Kinda like Rossi in his prime. Dorna must really be over the moon about this guy. And Honda are probably prepared to spend half their racing budget to keep Marquez. They should be.

Has anyone also noticed that pedrosa is sliding the rear more and more? Looks like he is learning from his teammate.
Dunewar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014