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Old 03-04-2014, 04:51 AM   #1291
RealChemist
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Honda misstep

I think Honda is reeling from the support behind the open class this year. Right from the motogp website...


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"At the end of the day, if the Open class has a Factory bike (competing in it), it will not be so cheap. I think that was the aim of the rule: to create a cheaper class. So I think we need to think about it. We need to understand - together with Dorna and the MSMA - if it was clear to everybody what the aim of this class was. Our understanding (and I think it was the understanding of everybody) was a class that was cheaper than the Factory bikes; now, with the interpretation of Ducati, it is not. So it is just a question of sitting down together to see what we want for the future."
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:30 AM   #1292
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Sounds to me like HRC sour grapes.

First because a factory team went to the open class

Second because Honda's open bikes are making the Ducatis look great even after Stoner's alleged fast test rides on the RCV1000
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:32 AM   #1293
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I don't remember Stoner being slow on the ducati.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:08 AM   #1294
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I like the new class format.

Ducati is so far behind that the open option seems to me to be their best path to creating a competitive machine in the shortest time. With the motor and testing flexibility, Ducati might have a competitive Factory option prototype as soon as 2015. If they continued as they were, they might not catch up for 3 or 4 seasons if ever.

I hope the FTR chassis works. I'd like to see the 'open' bikes stomp all over the factory bikes. I hate the fuel restrictions, motor restrictions and the limited tire options. Doesn't seem like true motor racing to me with the bogus handicaps they have to overcome. I'd like to see small specialty manufacturers become a bigger part of the grid.

I loved it when KRJR raced the Honda V5 in their home grown chassis. I hoped KRSR might try that again with the Proddy Honda.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:34 AM   #1295
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If we have to see spec racing give them access to RC 211V with full factory electronics and home grow their own chassis for it. All 250 HP of it. No fuel/tire or other restrictions. Managing that beast for race distances even with big fuel tanks and great tires will challenge the best of tuners and riders. make Honda supply support as well. And toss in a claiming rule for race winners as well.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:36 AM   #1296
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Is it just me, it seems like every year the MotoGP rules get more and more complex, and they change constantly. It doesn't seem like a single year recently has gone by without changes in the rules. That must cost money right there, manufacturers constantly chasing changing rules.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:49 AM   #1297
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Honda does have a point in that the original intent was to hold down costs. Not sure how well that ever worked, but safe to say that if Ducati is going to design build, test and race multiple engine configurations, that is going to cost more than the run-what-you-brung 2013 team. No way around it. And so it follows that less funded open-classers will fall behind again - they just won't be spending on electronics.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #1298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turder View Post
Fastest Moto2 test time was 1:32.3. Couple of weeks ago Sofuoglu took Supersport pole position with 1:32.7. That's only four tenths slower on a bike that's heavier, has road bike chassis, has less top speed and runs on threaded tires.
In the first year of Moto2, the Moto2 bikes lapped slower than the WSS bikes on the same track, same conditions...so the Moto2 boys are catching up.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:39 AM   #1299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Honda does have a point in that the original intent was to hold down costs. Not sure how well that ever worked, but safe to say that if Ducati is going to design build, test and race multiple engine configurations, that is going to cost more than the run-what-you-brung 2013 team. No way around it. And so it follows that less funded open-classers will fall behind again - they just won't be spending on electronics.
I think people are getting hung up on Open classification. Remember that this is the Ducati premier team. There is zero expectation that the true Open teams will spend as much as them. At the end of the day, they are aiming to compete with the Factory teams. The real Open team battle will be between Production Honda/Leased Yamaha...
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:44 AM   #1300
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Originally Posted by DC2wheels View Post
Sounds to me like HRC sour grapes.
+1

in the 'old' days of MotoGP the whine from Honda came from their gear drive to the camshafts, now it seems to come from their PR boys.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:45 AM   #1301
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If Honda felt that they had a better chance of winning outright in Open don't believe for a second that they would be in the Factory Class....

Pah!
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealChemist View Post
The real Open team battle will be between Production Honda/Leased Yamaha...
Honda's point.

Honda can make lots of proddies for the quoted price. Yamaha can't make any more of last year's bikes for the quoted price. It will require real money to get Hayden's bike on par with Forward. And so the escalation begins again.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:47 PM   #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Honda's point.

Honda can make lots of proddies for the quoted price. Yamaha can't make any more of last year's bikes for the quoted price. It will require real money to get Hayden's bike on par with Forward. And so the escalation begins again.
Actually, Honda are losing money on the proddy bikes, which is why they won't build more than 5. This year, Yamaha came close to providing 4 bikes to teams, but ended up with 2. If there is interest, there is no reason why in 2015 they couldn't supply 2-4 2014 bikes, and 2 2013 bikes. The 2013 bikes won't be that far off the pace anyway.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:58 PM   #1304
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Any thoughts on Suzuki's return being as an Open Category entry? Seems like a no brainer (kinda).

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Why let Honda write the rules? They have the set of rules they want. Why should it be a problem for others to chose the easier option (which is also not stacked in Honda's favor)?
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:26 PM   #1305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Any thoughts on Suzuki's return being as an Open Category entry? Seems like a no brainer (kinda).
It's a no-brainer to the race team. The board may need convincing, however. Will need to believe that they are getting R&D returns from racing without software development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Why let Honda write the rules? They have the set of rules they want. Why should it be a problem for others to chose the easier option (which is also not stacked in Honda's favor)?
Because they want to win. And there's a lot at stake, if Ducati beat Honda using the Open regulations, and Yamaha decide to switch to Open for 2015, Honda are left on their own. Trying to hold back the tide, which appears to be running against them.
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