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Old 11-25-2013, 08:53 AM   #31
Sniperx OP
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Whelp, ripped into it this weekend.

I'm sorry, I didn't take any pictures. The whole thing was pretty straight forward and the text was plenty to get the job done.

Looked exactly like all the pictures....a big gunky mess.

The pushrod was bone dry. I washed the felt in parts cleaner spray until it stopped coming out brown. I lubed the shaft with lithium grease. I packed the new bearing with FLM moly grease.

COuple words to the next intrepid wrencher. The exhaust comes off in two piece, a small shield near the center stand leg and the muffler. Take the muffler out of the shield...it will probably be a fight. Make sure you tighten the banjo fittings. When you think you're about to strip it out...crank it a little more. I thought I had it only to have fluid squirting out everywhere. Even when I retightened...I watched...it was still weeping. Test for leaks BEFORE putting it in its place and screwing it down. Its much easier to see the banjos and what is going on before you put it in. When changing the input seal, good luck....getting that little bitch out took the longest of the whole project. I went through 1.75 small bottles of fluid when bleeding and charging. Clean out the reservoir before and during your flush...use a paintbrush and Q-tips.

Observations: Is it just me, or is that thrust bearing on the end under constant pressure and ALWAYS turning? Unlike a normal inline throw out bearing that is only engaged when the clutch is pressed. That little dab of assembly lube is a joke for a constant running bearing. The guy at the dealer said "they are self lubricating"...to my knowledge only teflon bearings are self lubing.

Speed bleeders, and probably all automotive bleeders, are a little too long for the BMW bleeder system. They hit the ball before the threads engage. Grind or file the point a little bit until it starts to work properly. They also don't seem to seal so they're good for flushing and getting the whole process started, but when it comes down to the final purge you may want to do the standard open/close procedure to make sure no air is slipping past the threads into the system. I used a couple winds of gas pipe teflon tape (the yellow one..thicker) on the threads near the end. Don't squeeze and release the lever too quickly or the stuff squirts out the reservoir half way across your garage. Plan on the project taking 4 hours. It probably won't take this long, but unforseen delays...leaks, shaft seal fight, exhaust stuck...etc.

I'm going to disect the old one and see whats going on in there...
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:12 AM   #32
JimVonBaden
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Good info. Too bad no photos.

Just to add to what you said: Yes, clean everything. If your hose has dirty brown fluid in it you should change it. Speed Bleeders, IMHO, do not work well for this. You can fill from the slave end with a syringe, or normal pumping. Place the lid of a plastic water bottle (dry) upside down in the clutch reservoir to prevent squirting, or remove the rubber and set the lid back on.

Jim
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Good info. Too bad no photos.

Just to add to what you said: Yes, clean everything. If your hose has dirty brown fluid in it you should change it. Speed Bleeders, IMHO, do not work well for this. You can fill from the slave end with a syringe, or normal pumping. Place the lid of a plastic water bottle (dry) upside down in the clutch reservoir to prevent squirting, or remove the rubber and set the lid back on.

Jim
Yeah, I debated on changing the hose, but in the end, I just decided to flush the line out without the slave attached then just dump fluid through it before finishing up. I wanted to use naphtha or something to clean it out, but I didn't want to hurt the seals. A change will probably be coming up in the near future as the elbow was pretty rusty. I didn't feel like ripping into all that. If I have a failure....I'll take pics this time. Having a dead camera battery, no gloves, and a desire to get the thing done ended up defeating the photo plans.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:41 PM   #34
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Also, word to future workers...

The guide warns of dropping things behind the swing arm. Don't worry about it...I dropped tons of stuff back there on this project...it falls out on top of the cat and you can flick it out with a screwdriver. Lost everything back there...washers, screws, the gasket....everything came out fine.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post


The guy at the dealer said "they are self lubricating"...to my knowledge only teflon bearings are self lubing.

.
Sorry I'm late to this thread.
That's how they sell new ones
See my post here:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=27




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Dark fluid as reported = failed slave cylinder (piston is spinning due to failed release bearing) no amount of flushing is going to fix. Too late.
When the slave is pulled there will be a dark sludge in the cavity and the slave end. It looks like grease but it is water soluble (product of brake fluid leakage) be sure to clean out completely.

BB has good price on slave cylinders that are the exact OEM Magura replacement.

Before installing be sure to check the new slave release bearing for adequate grease.
I find almost every new one from BMW has just a tiny dab of grease often not even touching the balls (automated greasing?)
Add high temp wheel bearing grease with a Q tip and work around ensuring that all the balls are well greased.
That wee bearing is spinning all the time!

While in there be sure to cut back the neoprene sleeve that partially covers the pressure line coming down from the clutch lever.
It typically holds water in it and will eventually rust out the elbow above the banjo. Cut back about 1"

As far as bleeding the system goes I push the brake fluid up from the bottom the way BMW does it at the factory.
A modified brake bleed screw (pushes the ball) and a syringe does the job. Some find bleeding a dry clutch system frustrating, this method takes 2 minutes. Cover the open clutch reservoir with a rag as fluid will shoot up when it arrives!
Do not over fill, as the clutch wears the reservoir level rises (opposite of the brake system)

Note: I believe that greasing the release bearing is as important as regularly flushing brake fluid.
My original slave cylinder is at 254,000km. I change my fluid every year and have re-lubed the bearing 3 times.


Notice the dry balls in upper picture, this is typical of what I have seen.




Detail on how to trim the neoprene sleeve. This is a near new cable and the rust is just starting. Most times rust has progressed much further by the time I see them




Reverse bleed, also works great when installing SS Brake lines

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Old 11-25-2013, 03:51 PM   #36
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Thanks, I knew I saw reference to the dollop before. It seemed silly and that all the grease would be pushed past the bearing by the pushrod. Its also important, as you said, that this bearing is always turning...meaning it needs some top shelf attention.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
Thanks, I knew I saw reference to the dollop before. It seemed silly and that all the grease would be pushed past the bearing by the pushrod. Its also important, as you said, that this bearing is always turning...meaning it needs some top shelf attention.
Pretty amazing that bearing last as long as it does spinning turn for turn with the crankshaft.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:51 PM   #38
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Pretty amazing that bearing last as long as it does spinning turn for turn with the crankshaft.
Totally agree!
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:47 PM   #39
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Sniperxs said: ["Make sure you tighten the banjo fittings. When you think you're about to strip it out...crank it a little more. I thought I had it only to have fluid squirting out everywhere. Even when I retightened...I watched...it was still weeping."]

Did you use four new crush gaskets on the slave banjos? Should not have to go over the specified torque- doing so could damage those expensive banjo bolts or strip the slave. Could be that the banjos were not positioned correctly as I noted in the beginning of the thread.

Did you use a slide hammer to yank the input shaft rear seal or levers?

I don't care for the oem check valve on the bleed hose. A standard bleeder replaced it just fine (melted the thread lock by heating check valve with pin torch). I saw no need to back fill the sys to purge air... as I mentioned in the beginning checking for leaks and bleeding is best done prior to re-attaching slave to gear box. DOT 3 is cheap and works best for flushing the master (hose detached from slave) and for leak-checking and bleeding. DOT 4 was used after after final assembly.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
Sniperxs said: ["Make sure you tighten the banjo fittings. When you think you're about to strip it out...crank it a little more. I thought I had it only to have fluid squirting out everywhere. Even when I retightened...I watched...it was still weeping."]

Did you use four new crush gaskets on the slave banjos? Should not have to go over the specified torque- doing so could damage those expensive banjo bolts or strip the slave. Could be that the banjos were not positioned correctly as I noted in the beginning of the thread.


.
Agreed, I have never had to use excessive torque on the many systems I have done.
Never had a leak either.
I have even reused crush washers (when new was not available) with great success, but they must be annealed first.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:57 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
Did you use four new crush gaskets on the slave banjos? Should not have to go over the specified torque- doing so could damage those expensive banjo bolts or strip the slave. Could be that the banjos were not positioned correctly as I noted in the beginning of the thread.

Did you use a slide hammer to yank the input shaft rear seal or levers?
Yep, 4 new aluminum washers. I have no idea how you'd get an accurate torque reading way in there, but despite what you said...they were very tight as were the mounting bolts when I took them off. The banjos were original and assembled per the 'fische. That being said...the bleeder line was tight and didn't leak, the feed line leaked and actually turned a little more...about the same pressure used on each. All done using a small allen wrench in a houdini-esque position...so torque can't be that wild.

I used a little bit of everything to get the seal out. My wood screws on hand were limited to what I could steal from my garage demolition. It kept pulling out, I was fitting it between the seal and the shaft. Looking back now at your advice....it probably would have gone easier.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:25 AM   #42
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Interesting.

I just took the thing apart. There is zero wear or scoring on the bore or the piston. No corrosion or anything. The bearing still turns mostly smooth. I can only think the bearing is less than perfect and causes the piston to wobble a little and leak...or something. That being said....I'm going to look into rebuilding this....
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:58 AM   #43
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Interesting.

I just took the thing apart. There is zero wear or scoring on the bore or the piston. No corrosion or anything. The bearing still turns mostly smooth. I can only think the bearing is less than perfect and causes the piston to wobble a little and leak...or something. That being said....I'm going to look into rebuilding this....
Seal is available but I gave on the bearing for three reasons:
- bearing is pushed in blind and very difficult to remove without making a mess of the piston.
- could not find a replacement easily
- slave is only worth $99 new

Feel free to pursue and report back
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:32 AM   #44
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New Problem:

Seems to be leaking gear oil from there............................


I was very careful when I seated the seal, I used a spark plug socket and tapped it in until it stopped. I put a little grease on the seal lip where it meets the shaft.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:26 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperx View Post
New Problem:

Seems to be leaking gear oil from there............................


I was very careful when I seated the seal, I used a spark plug socket and tapped it in until it stopped. I put a little grease on the seal lip where it meets the shaft.
You can't do it that way. The seal can be driven in too far. The same applies to the other end.
I have a special driver i use. Can be made from PVC plumbing fitting. Not in the shop presently but will photograph and provide correct dimension.
Later today
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