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Old 11-13-2013, 12:31 PM   #1
HardWorkingDog OP
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Yet Another Land Grab; Please Help Carnegie State OHV Park

Here we go again.

We need your help to preserve our opportunity to enjoy legal off-road vehicle recreation at one of our prime California State OHV parks--Carnegie, situated in the hills between Livermore and Tracy.

Please go here and add your voice to the group of stakeholders who would like to be able to ride and recreate here, following the mandate of our prescient state leaders who provided us with the California Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Division, part of the State Park system.

Some background:

15 years ago the OHMVR purchased 3500 acres of land adjacent to the existing 1500 acre Carnegie OHV park using money collected from the OHV Trust Fund--money collected from our OHV reg fees. Piece of cake, right?

Nope. It's been 15 years and the land purchased by us and for us is still locked up and unavailable. The OHV department and the current superintendent of Carnegie are, finally, determined to get this land incorporated into the park, as it should be.

It will be years, years, I repeat, before all the planning process is completed but--from talking personally with Randy Caldera, the Carnegie Superintendent--the OHMVR is determined to see this through.

However, and there's always a however, money and politics always manages to raise it's ugly specter in these things. A wealthy "cattle ranch" neighboring landowner named Celeste Garamendi doesn't want us scummy filthy no-account dirt bikers recreating on the land we've bought and paid for. Hmmm, where have I heard the name Garamendi...yeah, right, she's the sister of U.S. Rep. John Garamendi.

She is spearheading an effort to wrest this land away from the OHMVR by any means possible. The latest dirty tricks include creating a fictitious "park" that now needs "Saving," and of course using the Sierra Club and the East Bay Regional Park District to stick their noses in and play the nimby card.

Last night at an OHMVR open house there were a dozen or so crunchies all sporting "Save Tesla Park" badges, they'd even set up an easel outside the door loudly decrying the "horrible mismanagement by Carnegie" and utterly mystified that the General Plan proposals didn't include an option for no vehicle access at all in the land bought by------OHV Park monies.

Let's see. There is NO Tesla Park.

The mandate of the OHMVR Division is to "...provide for a statewide system of managed OHV recreational opportunities..."

The crunchies love to ignore these 2 bits of data, and hope to co-opt this land.

Please go to the link above, and make known your approval of using this land for our legal and state mandated use of OHV recreation.

Thanks!
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HardWorkingDog screwed with this post 11-13-2013 at 01:47 PM Reason: now, know, gnu
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:40 PM   #2
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The "crunchies" were out numbered 2 to 1 at last nights meeting and there was no doubt that the powers that be noticed.
However we need to soundly reject, or seriously scale back, the "Tesla Park" idea so we need to maintain or add to that ratio.

If you're going to submit comments then please keep it civil and thoughtful.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #3
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In addition to the Save (non-existent) Tesla Park people, I ferreted out and engaged a representative of of the California Native Plant Society. Of course their interest is entirely "habitat rehabilitation" meaning NO motor vehicles any where near Carnegie if they can help it. I had not attended the previous public meeting on the issue but the format of this one seemed like a Delphi strategy to me implemented by the Eco-fear mongers hired by the State of California.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinez View Post
The "crunchies" were out numbered 2 to 1 at last nights meeting and there was no doubt that the powers that be noticed.
However we need to soundly reject, or seriously scale back, the "Tesla Park" idea so we need to maintain or add to that ratio.

If you're going to submit comments then please keep it civil and thoughtful.
Although it's impossible to know for sure, I'd have thought it was more like 4 or 5 to 1, OHV riders to non-riders.

Yes, soundly reject the TP red herring; no compromise. It is part of Carnegie OHV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramjet View Post
...I had not attended the previous public meeting on the issue but the format of this one seemed like a Delphi strategy to me implemented by the Eco-fear mongers hired by the State of California.
Hmm. I dunno. I'm firmly in the "I'm not paranoid, they ARE out to get me" camp but I believe the Superintendent and the OHMVR Division are determined to fulfill their mandate to provide OHV recreational opportunities for us riders in the acquired land. I had a chance to talk with Randy at the meeting in Tracy and he takes that mandate very seriously. It is a public process though, and must be made available for public comment as they are doing.
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HardWorkingDog screwed with this post 11-14-2013 at 10:04 AM
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:22 AM   #5
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I admit I'm a little surprised by the lack of...activity...in this thread.

Ramjet & Stinez followed me over from another thread, but I was expecting a dozen or so "Did it" comments by now.

Was it something I said? Was the term "crunchies" too, ummm, demeaning? Or just a tl; dr thing?
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardWorkingDog View Post
I admit I'm a little surprised by the lack of...activity...in this thread.

Ramjet & Stinez followed me over from another thread, but I was expecting a dozen or so "Did it" comments by now.

Was it something I said? Was the term "crunchies" too, ummm, demeaning? Or just a tl; dr thing?
This is somewhat political so I'd expect that those who avoid anything political will likely stay out of this thread.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:32 AM   #7
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Too few people are involved unfortunately. But others are and just not vocal. Probably some of those I recognized at the meeting fall into the latter category.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:36 AM   #8
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Did it

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardWorkingDog View Post
I admit I'm a little surprised by the lack of...activity...in this thread.

Ramjet & Stinez followed me over from another thread, but I was expecting a dozen or so "Did it" comments by now.

Was it something I said? Was the term "crunchies" too, ummm, demeaning? Or just a tl; dr thing?
Hopefully they are still reading the comments.

Growing up in MTZ, like many others, I rode Carnegie before it was a state park. Couldn't calculate how many hundreds of dollars I have been taxed thru the sticker program since then, and currently have 4 bikes with stickers.

Maybe lack of action you are seeing is cuz many have simply given up and have adopted the "just sneak around" action plan. When we showed up in Eldo County for the 42 Routes Closure meeting, there were five of us! I realize just sneaking around doesn't work in the Bay Area (why I moved), but there are still places where we outnumber these folks everywhere, like standing in line at the store. It is nice. And nice to not get mean-mugged cuz you have a dirtbike in your truck. (Fill up at Valero in FH, the owners all ride off-road.)

Yesterday Dennis Miller said to stop worrying about what might happen to this country, because it HAS happened. He said (")they can go ahead and close all the parks, (because) the people will find a way to get in and enjoy them, just like they used to do! What is the Forest Service going to do, start shooting everyone?(")

There, is that political? :-)

Foresthill has large post-fire area closures (for our "safety") and opening day of hunting there were hunters all over the Divide ignoring the signs. I saw a deputy up there playing with his computer. For some reason he had no interest in trying to shoot all of them.

When I first moved up here 20+ years ago, it was not unusual to see an NRA sticker on a sheriff vehicle! Maybe no stickers now, but still beats the hell outa the Bay Area.

When I'm outnumbered, I vote with my feet.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:20 PM   #9
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Sounds like the granola munchers need to be reminded where the money for the land came from-ohv green sticker money.The ohv sticker fund actually makes money-and the the state of komifornia spends it on other bs.Supposed to be elk on the ranch next door-and you can buy a hunting trip for $10k.Sometimes I ride my dual sport out to Carnagie for a little dirt riding.Where/when is the next meeting?
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:24 PM   #10
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Editable comment card

I made the comment card an editable pdf that takes only 10 min to fill out and send in. So you can download the pdf and email it in if that helps. How can I upload it here so everybody can get access to it???
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldxr View Post
...Where/when is the next meeting?
Not been announced yet, but if you go to the Carnegie General Plan website you can sign up to receive email notifications of future planning stuff.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardWorkingDog View Post
I admit I'm a little surprised by the lack of...activity...in this thread.

Ramjet & Stinez followed me over from another thread, but I was expecting a dozen or so "Did it" comments by now.

Was it something I said? Was the term "crunchies" too, ummm, demeaning? Or just a tl; dr thing?

Some folks do good things and don't feel a need to brag about it online.

Some folks find it hard to get excited about ANOTHER comment request after 15 years of property ownership & still NO access.

Some folks rode most of the singletrack at Cow Mtn today! BRAAAP!!!

Crunchies, 'eh?!?

Catfish ...
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:08 AM   #13
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Honestly, I think you would have attracted more interest if you stayed away from the name calling and overblown rhetoric and made a clearly reasoned argument with a call to action—you have a compelling one. Namely:

1) By law, offroad reg fees are to be used to support offroad activities.
2) Carnegie OHV followed the law and used money they already had to acquire an adjacent piece of property.
3) Now that Carnegie is getting ready to develop the property they own, a politically-connected neighbor has invented a new park out of thin air—Tesla Park—and is campaigning to "save" it.
4) She has gotten the usual environmental and legislative groups involved who either are jumping in without understanding the issues or don't want to upset a political patron.
5) The Tesla Park people are trying to steal OHV land and we need to stop them.

Keep in mind that there are all kinds of people on this site—some of whom love to hike, bicycle and camp in the wilderness (among other things) without their motorcycles in addition to going on awesome off road adventures with their motos. "Crunchies" is a derogatory term to these people, and you won't win them over by name calling right out of the gate.

I think it's fair to say that the histories of this country and this state are littered with examples of the government mismanaging public lands, and many of us rely on environmental groups to man the front lines to keep things from getting worse.

Of course, these groups aren't always right, either—anyone can be fallible, as they are in this case. But perhaps approaching the issue with a bit more compassion and a bit less name calling would get more people on our side.

Tl;dr My gran always said you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

That's just my 2¢, but who knows? Maybe not many replied because it's a good week for drinking.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:33 AM   #14
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Let's keep the lectures on political correctness outta here. If I don't agree with someone else's name calling, I'll suck it up or take it up with them personally.
Demeanor gets no traction with those making the decisions nor the people bitching about it.

On another note. I also spoke with Mike Fehling, Superintendant of the Off Highway Division of the parks. He encouraged questions directly to him for any clarification or planning. Like most of the park functionaries he is positive toward our cause but cuffed by politicians.

So in addition to filing your Carnegie comments write and fax your State and local elected officials with your concerns.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #15
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Like most of the park functionaries he is positive toward our cause but cuffed by politicians.
+1

Like McClintock says in his town meetings, there will be no change with FS etc. attitude until it comes from the top down. I truly wish it were simply just a matter of using honey vs. vinegar at the local level, but those days are long past.
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