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Old 12-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #16
crazybrit
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Just don't use brake fluid
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:38 PM   #17
MortimerSickle
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I use only Concorso Olio Bambino.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #18
crazybrit
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
I use only Concorso Olio Bambino.
no wonder you look so ageless
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #19
Apple Jam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
I use only Concorso Olio Bambino.
It's WHERE he uses it that is his secret

I hope he keeps it a secret
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:29 AM   #20
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ATF vs. PSF

Currently using Motorex 75. Back bled three times, used up half the bottle. Now it clunks into gear (must have gotten air in there somehow) so going to redo with some Royal Purple Max Synthetic ATF for comparison.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQ78H6

Was looking for fluid comparison info came across this --
MolaKule posted over in bobistheoilguy
A bit of history here.

First, power steering fluids (PSF) and ATF's are both hydraulic fluids because they are used in specialized hydraulic systems.

The early PSF fluids were simply mineral-based oils with a low-level phosphorous-based, or a low level of ZDDP addtives with a calcium detergent additive and anti-rust, and metal deacctivators. Specialized fricton modifiers were not needed in PS systems as they had are no friction clutches, just valves, racks, gears, seals, and hoses. Anti-oxidants of course are needed to stabilze the oil against high temperature fluid degradation.

Notice that both PS and AT sstems are essentially closed systems that do not see any combuston gases, so the addtive package and viscosity (thickness) are very different as compared to IC motor oils.

Modern ATF's have wet clutches, which required specialized friction additives to allow smooth shifting during clutch engagement/disengagement. Early ATF's were also mineral oils with low-levels of anti-wear additves mainly for the benefit of the sun/planetary gearing. In addition, low levels of detergents and dispersants are needed only to keep the internals clean. Anti-rust, and metal deactivators (especially the copper deactivators) are needed to keep the heat exchanger (cooler) metals from corroding. Anti-oxidants are needed here as well to stabilze the oil against high temperature fluid degradation.

Later, it was found that ATF's could funtion well as PSF's and it also reduced dealer inventory. Any Dexron/Merc or Type-F ATF seemed to function well as a PSF.

All was well until Honda and GM started requiring PSF formulations because of specific PS designs.

The mineral oil based Honda PSF's required high AW additive levels because of their design or design flaws inherent in the PS design.

The new GM PS fluid is essentially a very low detergent PSF, mineral-oil based fluid with a low level Boron/phos AW additive package.

The Dexron VI fluid was the first low viscosity ATF fluid (6.0 cSt), but this is only the beginning. Vehicle manufacturers are now using or developing transmissons that use fluid viscosities down to 4.0 cSt or lower.

But PSF fluids are still being specified at 7.5 cSt viscosities.


Additives:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...321#Post530321

Here is a companion thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...16#Post2239916
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:29 AM   #21
charlie264
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Been using cheap ford ATF for year......Citroen suspension fluid is also good, I mean cheap.

When are these companies going to wake up, you cant charge 16 quid for 1/2L of clutch mineral oil and expect everyone to blindly follow...
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:45 AM   #22
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My only question would be how does ATF blend with motor oil? If you have the stock clutch slave and the Oring seal fails- it will leak through into the case and mix with/contaminate the engine oil, right?
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ABuck99 screwed with this post 12-14-2013 at 05:51 AM
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:51 AM   #23
rufus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABuck99 View Post
My only question would be how does ATF blend with motor oil? If you have the stock clutch slave and the Oring seal fails- it will leak through into the case and mix with the oil, right?


It will help clean your engine. Won't hurt a thing.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:15 AM   #24
FastEddieB
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My 2005.5 950 Adventure calls for "Mineral Oil Only" on the clutch master cylinder.

When I swapped out my leaking slave cylinder, I believe it was someone here who suggested baby oil as it is pure mineral oil.

That's what I used, and several years later its working just fine.

Plus its available in any drugstore and really, really cheap.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #25
MortimerSickle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEddieB View Post
...I believe it was someone here who suggested baby oil as it is pure mineral oil.

That's what I used, and several years later its working just fine.

...


6 years here.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:53 AM   #26
Apple Jam
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post


6 years here.
But didn't you have a leaking/weeping Master, Mort?
You had mentioned once that you had tried the master rebuild kit, did it get the job done for you?

I've had two masters leak out the lever end. One met pavement fate before I had a chance to try and fix it, the other one got a rebuild kit that stopped leaking for all of a couple weeks. Always black goo leaking out even though I have refilled regularly with fresh red blood. I've been putting up with it leaking, since I have CJ's extender/cooler that hold lots more fluid, and fluid (even Magura Blood) is cheaper than a new Master. I've been waiting to try a different fluid until I take it all apart to clean the whole system when I get a new Master.

But it's time this Winter to buy a new master. I might go with a Magura 9.0 that some say works better (with a small switchgear mod for proper fit) or I might just buy the stock replacement at the big $ they want for it. But I don't want to put Magura blood back into it just to have black goo by next Winter again.

Seems as if there might be logic to what many have said about the mineral oils reacting with the aluminum master cylinder and making it black, while wearing the cylinder even more. It seems that is what I'm experiencing. Does the pure baby oils do this, or just the blood with it's additives? I realize my clutch lever likely gets more use/abuse than many, so maybe just that is the main issue with any fluid I use.

So my next question is for ATF users, the ones that use the clutch a LOT off-road like I do.....Is your ATF turning black after a year or two of use/abuse?
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #27
Ladukebob
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Local bicycle shop gave me a quart of 2.5 wt. fort oil because they don't use 2.5 anymore. I can't tell the difference between it and the red blood except the cost. I figure I'm set for life with a whole quart of the stuff.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:25 AM   #28
FastEddieB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
Seems as if there might be logic to what many have said about the mineral oils reacting with the aluminum master cylinder and making it black, while wearing the cylinder even more....Does the pure baby oils do this...
Thanks for encouraging me to go look.

I honestly don't think I've checked it since I installed that Evoluzione slave cylinder in July 2009.

In any case:



The baby oil looks perfectly clear.

Still smells like babies, too!
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:36 AM   #29
MortimerSickle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
But didn't you have a leaking/weeping Master, Mort?
You had mentioned once that you had tried the master rebuild kit, did it get the job done for you?
...
I did, and it did.

I had heard that to rebuild the master is a waste of time and money, because it supposedly won't last. But, the original (as far as I know) seals had lasted about 9 years, so I gave it a shot. I put in the kit last March, and so far it is not leaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
...
So my next question is for ATF users, the ones that use the clutch a LOT off-road like I do.....Is your ATF turning black after a year or two of use/abuse?
Maybe your interval is the problem? I think any fluid will get contaminated within a year. Well OK, Eddie's pic looks pretty good, but....

I change my clutch fluid, and my brake fluid a couple of times per year, just to make sure I don't get condensation/contaminant buildup.
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #30
FastEddieB
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
I use only Concorso Olio Bambino.
Made exclusively from virgin Italian babies...

...or so I hear.
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