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Old 01-21-2014, 02:39 PM   #91
COXR650L OP
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Ok......
The cases have been dropped off at the dealer and they are going to pull the old mains and press in the new ones. For $50 a lot better then paying for the two special tools.

I looked at the other bearings and saw two potential issues:
1-The right side balancer shaft bearing inner race is loose laterally. It does not seem correct, but I cannot see why it would be that loose, action is smooth otherwise. I would just replace it but its $68!!!! for one bearing! Has anyone seen this bearing to verify if there should be lateral play on the inner race?
2-The right side shift drum roller bearing is very notchy, as opposed to the other shift drum bearing which is very smooth.

Replace both bearings?

I also plan on replacing the shift fork bushings and the updated locking lever has already been ordered. Is there anything else I should do while I'm in there??

COXR650L screwed with this post 01-21-2014 at 03:06 PM
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:49 PM   #92
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Ben, I would definitely replace the shift drum with the updated part. I don't know what the failure rate is, but you would be kicking yourself if it cracks and you have to tear it all down again. I know it's not cheap, but I'm considering tearing my '04 down just to replace the drum.
What is cheap, is the updated gearbox oiling tube, just 1 dollar! P/N 60030065100. The new part has o-rings, which should eliminate some leakage and keep oil pressure up, which will help quiet the cam chain tensioners. If you look through the 2004 parts catalog, you will also find there are updated exhaust valves, cylinder head studs, and more. It's hard to know where to stop.
Good Luck
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:44 PM   #93
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Hey I didn't know you had a 950 too....When you coming back to GJ? Me and you are in the same boat, I really hope I can move back at some point.

Thanks for the heads up on the oil tube. 1 dollar, my kind of KTM part

I knew the shift drum was an update and I considered changing it but I guess my problem is Im on a budget and the list of stuff I could/"should" replace is never ending: rods, pistons, cylinders, valves, oil pumps, etc, etc, etc. Any of which could fail, but any engine part, new or used, could fail. I would bet you there is some mention of the new 1190 engine with problems already. Granted the drum could fail, but I dont know if it's worth $120 for an updated shift drum. Hell its made it 75k+ already I wonder what the actual failure rate of the shift drum is?? 1-10, 1-100, 1-1000?

If it does break at some point, it is not generally catastrophic correct? Worst case you split the engine and replace?

I was reading a post in the HOW and it sounds like the right balancer shaft bearing should have some play. The inner race actually just drops in and is held on by a retaining clip on the back side. What do you guys think?



Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvRonski View Post
Ben, I would definitely replace the shift drum with the updated part. I don't know what the failure rate is, but you would be kicking yourself if it cracks and you have to tear it all down again. I know it's not cheap, but I'm considering tearing my '04 down just to replace the drum.
What is cheap, is the updated gearbox oiling tube, just 1 dollar! P/N 60030065100. The new part has o-rings, which should eliminate some leakage and keep oil pressure up, which will help quiet the cam chain tensioners. If you look through the 2004 parts catalog, you will also find there are updated exhaust valves, cylinder head studs, and more. It's hard to know where to stop.
Good Luck
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:53 PM   #94
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I've got an idea...

Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
I would just replace it but its $68!!!! for one bearing! Has anyone seen this bearing to verify if there should be lateral play on the inner race?
2-The right side shift drum roller bearing is very notchy, as opposed to the other shift drum bearing which is very smooth.
Replace both bearings?
To help you avoid cutting neccesary costs as the money tap pours from your opened cases... I'd like to offer up to any other adv members an opportunity to pledge a couple bucks to help COXR650L out for tackling this project and entertaining us with his feedback. I'll go first and if he set's up a PayPal account I'll throw in the first 20 bucks.

I'm not trying to insult the OP or anyone else here. I'm merely identifying with his situation and want to offer a little adv engenuity.

I know at this juncture any little bit helps take the sting out of the upcoming surprises ahead.

COXR650L I'll PM you..
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:42 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
To help you avoid cutting neccesary costs as the money tap pours from your opened cases... I'd like to offer up to any other adv members an opportunity to pledge a couple bucks to help COXR650L out for tackling this project and entertaining us with his feedback. I'll go first and if he set's up a PayPal account I'll throw in the first 20 bucks.

I'm not trying to insult the OP or anyone else here. I'm merely identifying with his situation and want to offer a little adv engenuity.

I know at this juncture any little bit helps take the sting out of the upcoming surprises ahead.

COXR650L I'll PM you..
DesertSurfer,

I PM'd you back.

Thank you so much for the offer I am really touched. That is why I am always amazed by ADVrider. The sense of community and support here is unbelievable for being an internet forum. I truly think if someone was in dire straights and asked for help on ADV, irregarless of what it was for, there would be inmates willing to go to astonishing length to help them out.


For me, and even if the bike leaves me stranded from something I skimped on, I would never feel right about accepting money from people for a bike rebuild. Its a hobby and riding is something I love to do, but its not something I need to do (well maybe I do, actually). Im sure that just like a lot of people, money is tight, but Im lucky that I am able to fix the bike up at all. It could be worse and still dumping oil down the side of the engine and into the coolant reservoir I will have to cut some corners and it will not be perfect, but if I had the money to make it perfect I'd just buy a new bike.

Thanks again for the offer to help, I am very grateful for the support, like I said if your in Colorado the beers are on me.

Ben
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:46 AM   #96
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Bump..

I need to order the last batch of parts today. Any info if the right side balancer shaft roller bearing should have lateral play in the inner race?

Thanks
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:51 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Ok......
1-The right side balancer shaft bearing inner race is loose laterally. It does not seem correct, but I cannot see why it would be that loose, action is smooth otherwise. I would just replace it but its $68!!!! for one bearing! Has anyone seen this bearing to verify if there should be lateral play on the inner race?
2-The right side shift drum roller bearing is very notchy, as opposed to the other shift drum bearing which is very smooth.
1 - they updated that bearing. The inner race caused me to have a mild heart attack once when changing the cam chains... it dropped into the case!

I could be wrong but the new bearing is a one piece.

Be sure to specify the 950 bearing if buying from KTM, the balancer shafts in the 990's are different and take a different bearing.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359792

2 - That I have split cases 4 times now (3 different engines)and every time I've found that shift drum bearing to be notchy.

Both bearings I've replaced at the local bearing shop, they are standard sized bearings. I just take out the dust seals before they go in though.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:59 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
1 - they updated that bearing. The inner race caused me to have a mild heart attack once when changing the cam chains... it dropped into the case!

I could be wrong but the new bearing is a one piece.

Be sure to specify the 950 bearing if buying from KTM, the balancer shafts in the 990's are different and take a different bearing.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359792

2 - That I have split cases 4 times now (3 different engines)and every time I've found that shift drum bearing to be notchy.

Both bearings I've replaced at the local bearing shop, they are standard sized bearings. I just take out the dust seals before they go in though.
Thanks again for the info....
I'll just skip ordering each bearing from KTM and get one from a bearing supplier when I get the cases back. Really seems odd to have that much play in the race, but I guess when the balancer shaft nut tightened down it would suck in just fine.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:52 PM   #99
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I don't post much now due to time but I got a PM about this so will chip in. I hate seeing people being mis-informed or led down a garden path so hopefully this straightens things out re: balancer bearings / assembly.

Re: the right side balancer bearing. This has never never been updated, it's been the same bearing since 2003. It is a cylindrical roller bearing with a split inner race and if you look closely at the make-up of the assembly, when you tighten the nut on the end of the balancer shaft, everything is pulled up tight and then the end float (lateral play) is minimised / removed. It's how it's meant to be. When it's disassembled, sure it will feel like there is a lot of play, because the inner race is simply floating / not complete without the second ring part and clamping of the assembly! From experience, the right side bearing will not need to be replaced, they are a cylindrical roller bearing and way over-rated for what they do. Unless it is clearly damaged but I doubt it.

The left bearing is a different story. The earlier models (like yours) had a ball bearing which is prone to failure. This was replaced with a cylindrical roller bearing on 05.5 models and newer HOWEVER, you CANNOT simply order and retro-fit that bearing, the cases are different and so is the balance shaft. So, you've got what you've got so you need to replace the ball bearing (left side bearing) with a new one. They are weak and simply removing the balance shaft puts inherent force through the bearing laterally and can cause damage. Steverino rebuilt an engine once without replacing this and two weeks later, this bearing let go,....change it!

That is all. Hope this is clear / helps.

Lyndon
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:39 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyndon View Post
I don't post much now due to time but I got a PM about this so will chip in. I hate seeing people being mis-informed or led down a garden path so hopefully this straightens things out re: balancer bearings / assembly.

Re: the right side balancer bearing. This has never never been updated, it's been the same bearing since 2003. It is a cylindrical roller bearing with a split inner race and if you look closely at the make-up of the assembly, when you tighten the nut on the end of the balancer shaft, everything is pulled up tight and then the end float (lateral play) is minimised / removed. It's how it's meant to be. When it's disassembled, sure it will feel like there is a lot of play, because the inner race is simply floating / not complete without the second ring part and clamping of the assembly! From experience, the right side bearing will not need to be replaced, they are a cylindrical roller bearing and way over-rated for what they do. Unless it is clearly damaged but I doubt it.

The left bearing is a different story. The earlier models (like yours) had a ball bearing which is prone to failure. This was replaced with a cylindrical roller bearing on 05.5 models and newer HOWEVER, you CANNOT simply order and retro-fit that bearing, the cases are different and so is the balance shaft. So, you've got what you've got so you need to replace the ball bearing (left side bearing) with a new one. They are weak and simply removing the balance shaft puts inherent force through the bearing laterally and can cause damage. Steverino rebuilt an engine once without replacing this and two weeks later, this bearing let go,....change it!

That is all. Hope this is clear / helps.

Lyndon
Thanks!!! that was just the info I needed I really appreciate you helping out!! I will be replacing the LEFT bearing. Ill pull it and get one from a bearing shop.

Ben
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:22 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyndon View Post

Re: the right side balancer bearing. This has never never been updated, it's been the same bearing since 2003. It is a cylindrical roller bearing with a split inner race and if you look closely at the make-up of the assembly, when you tighten the nut on the end of the balancer shaft, everything is pulled up tight and then the end float (lateral play) is minimised / removed. It's how it's meant to be. When it's disassembled, sure it will feel like there is a lot of play, because the inner race is simply floating / not complete without the second ring part and clamping of the assembly! From experience, the right side bearing will not need to be replaced, they are a cylindrical roller bearing and way over-rated for what they do. Unless it is clearly damaged but I doubt it.

Lyndon
In the 950's, the right side balancer shaft bearing was updated; old part no: 60030024000 CYL.ROLLER BEAR. Current part number is 60030024100. Both are roller bearings, the former just has a removable race.

I am not sure when they did it, but my Silver 2004 had the original in it. The inner race can be completely removed;





I think they changed over sometime during the 2005 models.

When I changed the cam chains, that race fell into the engine. I got the bearing out and replaced it with the current iteration that they use;

New bearing, race will not come out but has lateral play.

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Old 01-23-2014, 05:43 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
In the 950's, the right side balancer shaft bearing was updated; old part no: 60030024000 CYL.ROLLER BEAR. Current part number is 60030024100. Both are roller bearings, the former just has a removable race.

I am not sure when they did it, but my Silver 2004 had the original in it. The inner race can be completely removed;





I think they changed over sometime during the 2005 models.

When I changed the cam chains, that race fell into the engine. I got the bearing out and replaced it with the current iteration that they use;

New bearing, race will not come out but has lateral play.

Thanks, I may just see what both generic versions cost at a bearing supply house, just to be safe if they aren't too much.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:56 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Thanks, I may just see what both generic versions cost at a bearing supply house, just to be safe if they aren't too much.
Don't get the removable race type. They must have had a reason to change it.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:04 AM   #104
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Don't get the removable race type. They must have had a reason to change it.

Ya I wont.

So just an idea......
The weak point in the left side bearing is that it's a ball vs roller correct? I am sure a bearing place would have the same size bearing in a roller variety, would there be a problem upgrading to a roller bearing on the left side to mimic the updated bearing?
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:33 AM   #105
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Ya I wont.

So just an idea......
The weak point in the left side bearing is that it's a ball vs roller correct? I am sure a bearing place would have the same size bearing in a roller variety, would there be a problem upgrading to a roller bearing on the left side to mimic the updated bearing?
I was thinking the same, if you can get the correct size.
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