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Old 12-27-2013, 03:27 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by MotoBoss View Post
With over 45 years of riding experience, 15 years of track days, 8 years a MSF safety instructor, 6 years as a track school instructor, five years as a track day provider, three years racing CCS, drag raced three years with AHDRA and have attended most of the track schools the OP has noted I feel the need to weigh in.
Now, I'm not an expert but
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:29 AM   #227
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I think I've found jesus.
lol

now scuff on
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:04 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
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Now that was the response I expected !
experience is bullshit to some because they have none.................your right.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:23 AM   #229
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while much of the link is fact as I know it, not 100% (crown of road does NOT cause left side wear) therefore I have no faith in learning new facts from that link, as the author did not verify the info was correct
Unfortunately you are 100% WRONG on that one.
100's of thousands of miles under my belt, and working in bike dealerships (Dads and others) for most of my adult life, looking at countless numbers of worn out tires from all sorts of bikes and riders, and the left side wears more then the right side 100% of the time. So, what's YOUR answer if it's NOT the road crown causing the wear?






















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Old 12-27-2013, 06:28 AM   #230
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I know everything so why don't you just ask me?
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:00 AM   #231
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With over 45 years of riding experience, 15 years of track days, 8 years a MSF safety instructor, 6 years as a track school instructor, five years as a track day provider, three years racing CCS, drag raced three years with AHDRA and have attended most of the track schools the OP has noted I feel the need to weigh in.
Now, I'm not an expert but have attended to many tire related event's and spoken to many tire manufacture reps to not take note of several factors in tire safety.

I have ridden and taught at tracks from California(Fontana), Miami (Homestead), Virginia (VIR), Michigan (Gingerman) New Jersey, Iowa, Indiana, Kentucky and many more and I have ALWAYS "scuffed" tire's in for the first few laps (lap)/miles to BOTH remove the smooth surface and bring heat into the tire. There may be very little "mold release" agent left on tires today but the manufacturing process produces a super smooth surface that must be broken to increase tire grip. The tire "grease" on the surface comes from the heat process during the molding process that brings natural oils in the rubber to the surface and produce the super smooth surface. In the case of "cold construction"(pioneered by Michelin) the pressure produces the same fine, smooth "greasy" surface.

I have fallen down at 2mph in the pits on new slicks while turning around due to the super smooth surface on brand new tires. I have railed, knee down' right out of the pits with new heated tires ( due to tire warmers) and never had a problem but never on new (even heated) tires without falling or coming close to doing so. I have cleaned up countless "throttle hero's" on the first lap of many events due to the over aggressive riding believing their new "track tire's" are "good to go". Heat, or the lack thereof, is the major factor in tire grip but on a new tire there is a surface that should be broken to increase lean angle. That is up to the rider, their ability and conditions.
So this needs a bit of clarifying
Quote:
I have railed, knee down' right out of the pits with new heated tires ( due to tire warmers) and never had a problem
but never on new (even heated) tires without falling or coming close to doing so.
Now tires need to be brought up to the proper temp, even with tire warmers your tires begin to cool the minute they are taken out, which as you know is why everyone wants to get to the line as soon as possible.
So I am not following, were you almost going down because your tires had not been brought back up to temp properly before the corner?
Could this be a cause of those falling down, possibly a faulty tire or other factors such as took their tire out of a warmer to soon?


Quote:
No, I'm not trying to thump my chest and I am too old to give a shit about trying to impress anyone, but just stating that years of experience means more than some inter-dweeb quoting random theory as gospel. I have ridden with Jason Pridmore and will damn grantee you he never goes on the track with new or cold tires at full lean angle right out of the box.
Yes you are trying to thump your chest, and you certainly have enough experience to do so.
I am not sure why you called me a Dweeb who seached some random article posted by someone who obviously does not know what he is talking about (Which is what you are saying). Yet you never really discounted anything I stated, you do believe tires are slick, but not so slick you still would not race on them.

Quote:
Believe what you want but true experience tells me to "scuff" is to be "safe". Without tire warmers it may take one lap or less, depending on experience level, tire make and track conditions but there is no experienced rider that goes out at full lean and throttle right out of the gate. In the end this means street riders do, and should, take care in the first few miles to assure safe riding.
And this is something I stated as well, are you saying people should be sanding their tires first? That does seem a bit ridiculous as again do to the abrasive nature of asphalt and the heat needed for tires to stick.



Quote:
Oh and the "weaving back and fort" is not to warm tires but to remove rubber marbles, that's why it's done in every motorsport.............sheees
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:27 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
Unfortunately you are 100% WRONG on that one.
100's of thousands of miles under my belt, and working in bike dealerships (Dads and others) for most of my adult life, looking at countless numbers of worn out tires from all sorts of bikes and riders, and the left side wears more then the right side 100% of the time. So, what's YOUR answer if it's NOT the road crown causing the wear?
Its been pretty well debunked for a while now. The road crown isn't enough to cause the wear discrepancy you see. The prevailing theory now is that you travel almost twice the distance turning left than tou do turning right (if you drive on the right side of the road).
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:16 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
Actually it does, the road is canted to help water run off
.
yes, roads are crowned for drainage , but that is not what causes left side bias of wear patterns, is simply the fact that we ride on the right side of road and left curves are longer cause they are the outside radius

this guy goes into a very detailed explanation
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

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Old 12-27-2013, 08:37 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
yes, roads are crowned for drainage , but that is not what causes left side bias of wear patterns, is simply the fact that we ride on the right side of road and left curves are longer cause they are the outside radius

this guy goes into a very detailed explanation
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

It's only longer if you stay on your side of the yellow line.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:28 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
yes, roads are crowned for drainage , but that is not what causes left side bias of wear patterns, is simply the fact that we ride on the right side of road and left curves are longer cause they are the outside radius

this guy goes into a very detailed explanation
http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/

HA! Interesting theory and a longer radius turning certainly would help to increase wear to the left but one cannot eliminate crown.
First you will travel more miles straight than you will turn, this of course will very per location. In the west or for those who merely live in the rural areas your straights are far more predominant than those who would live on the east coast.
The article goes on to say that roads are not always at at least a 1 percent, that is false I built them that is the minimum to a grade when a road is built, some contracts require more.
Second it talks about tire wear being higher on the tire than the crown.
That is only some what correct, any time you apply weight the tire begins t of flatten out, so merely your weight and that of the passenger will cause your tire to flatten a bit more, under acceleration your rear will flatten more than the front. Adversely when you apply your brakes there is more force on the front tire than the rear causing it to flex.
the center of your tires are generally made of a harder material than the sides which are softer merely for your turn, thus why you will see again more wear to the left of your tire :)
It also goes on to discount cupping being caused by suspension, their theory is interesting and certainly applies to an extent but yoru suspension places force upon your tire thus helping it to keep contact with the ground, which is why it is most often pointed to as a cause.
Your tire pressure also plays a roll, and one could easily argue that is the leading cause :)
Kind of an interesting discussion from grease monkeys http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=116695

Anyhow now we are getting way off track and this thread will go on forever with this new debate tossed in

Good article I enjoyed reading :)

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Old 12-27-2013, 09:40 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post
As a new rider on a used bike I have never had the "joy" of riding on a brand new set of tires. So I came to this thread completely unbiased hoping to learn something for when that day comes. And I did, I have read nearly every post in this thread, excluding the "you're mean and I hate you" bullshit that seemed to take over towards the end.

While I really can't form a fully-informed opinion on what causes this given the information in the thread I have read enough of the first-hand accounts to see new tires either themselves behave differently or make you as a rider behave differently. I personally would think that while there may or may not be a specific compound on a new tire the unabraded tires could act differently than a tire that has been ridden to develop an abraded surface. I don't recall the listed tire warnings saying "you must ride to get X compound off the tire" but the warnings are there.

I still think the most overlooked post, and ultimately one of the most important ones, came from DAKEZ.

This post helps me to breath a sigh of relief. The OP could really hurt or even kill a new rider with his ridiculous advice and statements. I hope that all newer riders that have not yet had the experience of riding new tires are smart enough to read beyond the first post! It's common knowledge to understand that brand new tires are slick until they've been worn in a bit, and common sense to understand that riders need to be a bit more careful on new tires.

Where's Myth Busters when you really need them?
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:44 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
HA! Interesting theory and a longer radius turning certainly would help to increase wear to the left but one cannot eliminate crown.
First you will travel more miles straight than you will turn, this of course will very per location. In the west or for those who merely live in the rural areas your straights are far more predominant than those who would live on the east coast.
The article goes on to say that roads are not always at at least a 1 percent, that is false I built them that is the minimum to a grade when a road is built, some contracts require more.
Second it talks about tire wear being higher on the tire than the crown.
That is only some what correct, any time you apply weight the tire begins t of flatten out, so merely your weight and that of the passenger will cause your tire to flatten a bit more, under acceleration your rear will flatten more than the front. Adversely when you apply your brakes there is more force on the front tire than the rear causing it to flex.
the center of your tires are generally made of a harder material than the sides which are softer merely for your turn, thus why you will see again more wear to the left of your tire :)
It also goes on to discount cupping being caused by suspension, their theory is interesting and certainly applies to an extent but yoru suspension places force upon your tire thus helping it to keep contact with the ground, which is why it is most often pointed to as a cause.
Your tire pressure also plays a roll, and one could easily argue that is the leading cause :)
Kind of an interesting discussion from grease monkeys http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=116695

Anyhow now we are getting way off track and this thread will go on forever with this new debate tossed in

Good article I enjoyed reading :)
you really like tires, huh?
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:52 AM   #238
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This post helps me to breath a sigh of relief. The OP could really hurt or even kill a new rider with his ridiculous advice and statements. I hope that all newer riders that have not yet had the experience of riding new tires are smart enough to read beyond the first post! It's common knowledge to understand that brand new tires are slick until they've been worn in a bit, and common sense to understand that riders need to be a bit more careful on new tires.

Where's Myth Busters when you really need them?
Really, where has my advice been unsound?

Quote:
you really like tires, huh?
yes they are your contact patch to the gound, you bet your ass I love them
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:53 AM   #239
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I'm more comfortable going faster on left turns than right turns. Riding faster on lefts doesn't have much to do with the radius of the turn. It just feels better, more natural...

I don't know if it's because I'm right handed, or because the throttle is in a more comfortable spot on a left turn. I try to go backwards on my buddy's mini flattrack, but get bored quickly and go back to CCW travel.

And...The front and rear tires show a little more wear on their left sides.
Fwiw, I'm riding crossed up on a supermoto primarily on right side of the road.

On topic, certain tires don't really need to be scrubbed in.

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Old 12-27-2013, 10:00 AM   #240
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roads are crowned at less than 5% (5% for gravel roads and 3% for paved roads is pretty much standard crown)

for road crowns to account for left side wear, they would have to be as steep as the Daytona banking or steeper
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