ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-30-2014, 04:26 AM   #781
Salzig
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Salzig's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Cremona, Italy
Oddometer: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butters View Post
If you really needed to scrape the entire tire surface, your outer edges would always be slippery until you were all the way leaned over and presumably under A LOT of lateral forces.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butters View Post
Yet if you look at your chicken strips after many miles, there still may be the little rubber antennae on the outer edges, but you can clearly see the rubber doesn't look "new." I assume that's because even that area that may not have touched tarmac has still undergone some type of change - presumably from heat cycling or deformation.
Or what's left from production/storing has been washed away: but if you touch it, more then likely you'll still feel a different grip.
Too bad my tyres have no chicken strips...
__________________
Actual rides:
'10 Husqvarna TE310 - '07 KTM 990 Adventure ABS (S'd) - '04 Husqvarna SM450R - '99 YAMAHA R6

"A donkey! A donkey! My kingdom for a donkey!"
Salzig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 04:48 AM   #782
Tuna Helper
Rawrr!
 
Tuna Helper's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Red Five standing by
Oddometer: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salzig View Post
This.

Or what's left from production/storing has been washed away: but if you touch it, more then likely you'll still feel a different grip.
Too bad my tyres have no chicken strips...
That has been my thought as well, rain, wind, dirt, gravel, maybe even sunlight plays a part in it.
Tuna Helper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 08:16 AM   #783
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
You mean the guy on the Gixxer who just bought a new bike, in shiny new leathers, probably had minimal if any experience who would chop the throttle causing those super slippery new tires to grip and toss his ass overboard?
Probably not the best case ever put forth.
That video appears to have been shot in Germany. They have strict licensing and training requirements. They also have a tiered licensing so the guy in the video was not some 16 year old kid on his first motorcycle.

Also, I don't see any likely explanation other than something slippery, either tires, pavement or both.

Your explanation for this case doesn't do much for your credibility.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 08:24 AM   #784
pdxmotorhead
Studly Adventurer
 
pdxmotorhead's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Portland OR
Oddometer: 665
Ok, so gotta throw into the fray... I maintained race cars for many years.. I've had all different kinds of tires mounted, many hundreds of sets from various manufacturers. Race slicks race DOT and plain DOT depending on class.

I've never seen a fast lap pulled on stickers, the fast lap has always been the second ssssion out. HEAT is what brings the traction. You have to heat and cool the rubber compound once to get the rubber to its intended grip. Scrubbing never did it for me, it was always running at 7-8/10ths 2 or 3 laps bring the car in let them cool then go out and hammer it. Try and run a 9/10's+ lap with clean fresh tires = off track..

Even the dirt sprint cars I've worked on got their best traction after the tires had a session.

I think its just getting the heat and a tic of wear on the tire surface to open the structure of the rubber surface up. (This is also what the tire engineers told me happens...)

You can get a little heat quicker by dropping the tire pressure a little and run easy for a short time, then take them up to normal.

Cheers.
__________________
Freedom is a delicate thing.
More easily lost than gained.
pdxmotorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 10:20 AM   #785
Jumping Jack Flash
USG Vagabond
 
Jumping Jack Flash's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: "In transit" NoVA, VA
Oddometer: 106
I just got my bike back from my mechanic yesterday with brand new Dunlops fore and aft.

After reading the majority of the thread I am mostly .

I asked my guy and he said basically take it easy the first hundred miles or so...recheck the pressure (especially as they were filled cold) and refrain from aggressive cornering (I know I have a cruiser...believe it or not the Sabre is quite nimble) during that time.

Good enough?
__________________
2007 Sabre
Jumping Jack Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 02:41 PM   #786
anotherguy
Beastly Adventurer
 
anotherguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: the hills
Oddometer: 6,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avocet View Post
Thanks Anotherguy. If I understand you correctly, you're saying to take it easy as you start using previously unused portions of the tire. Makes sense.
Yep that's what I meant. Smooth is a good way to go when scrubbed as well.
__________________
A lie has no feet......it can't stand alone.............
Jason Newsted
anotherguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2014, 06:53 PM   #787
Night Falcon
Adventure NZL
 
Night Falcon's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Nu Va Ze Lon
Oddometer: 1,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumping Jack Flash View Post
I just got my bike back from my mechanic yesterday with brand new Dunlops fore and aft.

After reading the majority of the thread I am mostly .

I asked my guy and he said basically take it easy the first hundred miles or so...recheck the pressure (especially as they were filled cold) and refrain from aggressive cornering (I know I have a cruiser...believe it or not the Sabre is quite nimble) during that time.

Good enough?
You have nothing to fear following the advice of 99% of the comments on this thread (and your mechanic) to take it easy until your new tires have had some road time.
__________________
My KTM 390 Adventure - we live in hope!
My KTM 690 - RIP
My Rev3 Trials Adventures
Night Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 07:46 AM   #788
Tuna Helper
Rawrr!
 
Tuna Helper's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Red Five standing by
Oddometer: 712
I still haven't been told why its a bad idea to take it easy on new tires because they may be slippy, but a good idea to take it easy on new tires because of the new profile. You're still taking it easy, who cares what the reason is?
Tuna Helper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 09:26 AM   #789
GSWayne
Old Guy nOOb
 
GSWayne's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Oddometer: 2,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
It's difficult at best to have a technical discussion about something when that something is not defined, ie. race or street tires. Would that not be two discussions?


Wayne one thing that struck me and I don't recall it being defined. Was your measurement recorded at the moment of movement?
It would be two discussions if race tires were made by a different process than street tires. I have no idea if that is a the case or not.

My measurement was while they were sliding, but the peak force before they started sliding was only a tiny amount greater than the sliding value i.e. the values of static and dynamic mu were close to the same. It would make sense that the tire makers would try to design their product without a big change between static and dynamic friction or it would be very difficult and dangerous to run the tires near the limit.
__________________
It isn't the conditions its the decisions

Don't bring a motorcycle to a car fight
GSWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 06:01 PM   #790
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
I still haven't been told why its a bad idea to take it easy on new tires because they may be slippy, but a good idea to take it easy on new tires because of the new profile. You're still taking it easy, who cares what the reason is?

Because it means your a sissy pants!

Grow some grapse - get out there and nail it immediately cold on new tires. Show you're a man!
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 06:07 PM   #791
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadless View Post
It's difficult at best to have a technical discussion about something when that something is not defined, ie. race or street tires. Would that not be two discussions?


Wayne one thing that struck me and I don't recall it being defined. Was your measurement recorded at the moment of movement?

Also a problem when probably 99-44/100% of the participants are not experts in the field. May as well be talking about worm holes in space.

Make it really useful...

Which way would you rather be wrong:
  1. Taking it a bit easy for the first twenty miles on a new tire when you don't need to.
  2. Riding a new tire hard from the start only to find it does slide out for whatever reason.
I think I know which I'll do.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 06:14 PM   #792
joexr
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: S.E.
Oddometer: 3,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Because it means your a sissy pants!

Grow some grapse - get out there and nail it immediately cold on new tires. Show you're a man!
MOST guys can't handle a slide without ending up on their ass. I don't care about the SCRUB , so to speak , but I DO like to let the tires warm up a little. I got into a habit years ago of waiting 'till the bike got up to temp before getting on it much. The colder it is out the farther I've gone first. My tires DO last a little bit longer because I'm turning the wheel a little less before the tires are warm.
joexr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 08:18 PM   #793
TahoeRider
Red Rider
 
TahoeRider's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Sierra Foothills
Oddometer: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
I still haven't been told why its a bad idea to take it easy on new tires because they may be slippy, but a good idea to take it easy on new tires because of the new profile. You're still taking it easy, who cares what the reason is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Which way would you rather be wrong:
  1. Taking it a bit easy for the first twenty miles on a new tire when you don't need to.
  2. Riding a new tire hard from the start only to find it does slide out for whatever reason.
I think I know which I'll do.
to both.

Why the OP continues to post arguments to almost everyone responding to this thread is beyond me. I can only hope to one day have the same intellect, skill & riding ability so I can also preach to the masses about the correct way to ride a motorcycle
TahoeRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 10:53 PM   #794
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avocet View Post
I haven't read this entire thread, so this may have been asked. How does riding gently on a new tire help you the first time you lean way over? If you're riding gently you probably aren't using the edges of the tires, so no matter how long you wait before finally starting to ride aggressively, the edges won't be scrubbed in until the first time you use them. I always wonder about this when I ride around gently on new tires.
My approach:
To reach the outer areas of the tyre, I increase lean gradually. Mainly to feel how much grip that partial part of road has, but as well that leads to only a small part of the contact patch is touching the ground for the first time while the most of it already proved itself.
Also, when going to my personal limits (not necessarily the limits of my tyre, new or used), I reduce acceleration gradually. Only when I'm sure the tyre grips well I add acceleration.

So in short, riding cautious doesn't mean to lean less but to increase the lean angle slowlier and to not accelerate while leaned over.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 07:39 AM   #795
PFFOG
Richard Alps-aholic
 
PFFOG's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Western NY, further from NYC than 6 entire states
Oddometer: 2,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
My approach:.......................
So in short, riding cautious doesn't mean to lean less but to increase the lean angle slowlier and to not accelerate while leaned over.

What he said.
PFFOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014