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Old 02-01-2014, 04:34 PM   #796
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avocet View Post
I haven't read this entire thread, so this may have been asked. How does riding gently on a new tire help you the first time you lean way over? If you're riding gently you probably aren't using the edges of the tires, so no matter how long you wait before finally starting to ride aggressively, the edges won't be scrubbed in until the first time you use them. I always wonder about this when I ride around gently on new tires.
Unless you start from a dead stop while leaned over , with the speed a tire rotates , you can throw it over as fast as you want to to full lean and and it's STILL basically gradual as far as contact patch goes.
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:45 PM   #797
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Eek True, but not complete.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Unless you start from a dead stop while leaned over , with the speed a tire rotates , you can throw it over as fast as you want to to full lean and and it's STILL basically gradual as far as contact patch goes.
Yes, the transition from center of tread to shoulder can be gradual with regard to the contact patch, however, if you are carrying excessive speed you run the risk of exceeding grip because directional changes by their very physical nature create lateral "G" forces. In my humble opinion, it is still best to limit cornering forces while scuffing in a new tire. Lean all you want, even to the limit of your pegs, but keep the speed and acceleration gentle.
THUMPER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:57 PM   #798
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Originally Posted by GETTHUMPER2 View Post
Yes, the transition from center of tread to shoulder can be gradual with regard to the contact patch, however, if you are carrying excessive speed you run the risk of exceeding grip because directional changes by their very physical nature create lateral "G" forces. In my humble opinion, it is still best to limit cornering forces while scuffing in a new tire. Lean all you want, even to the limit of your pegs, but keep the speed and acceleration gentle.
THUMPER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In seconds the sides will be scrubbed in.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:47 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
In seconds the sides will be scrubbed in.
Sadly it needs only parts of a second to initiate the crash.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:27 AM   #800
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Sadly it needs only parts of a second to initiate the crash.
That's just YOU.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:40 AM   #801
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This is what makes ADV so great!

54 pages of feeding the troll.

I once had this conversation with a guy that mounted his own tires, who swore that no scrubbing in was ever necessary for him...

He lived on a 1/4 mile loose gravel driveway. By the time he hit pavement, the tires were fine. It simply never occurred to him that he was scrubbing the surface by riding the gravel out to the road.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:47 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
That's just YOU.
No, it's physics. That's why I have no problems, I'm finne with physics.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:51 AM   #803
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No, it's physics. That's why I have no problems, I'm finne with physics.
You're a finne? I thought you were German.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:34 PM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Unless you start from a dead stop while leaned over , with the speed a tire rotates , you can throw it over as fast as you want to to full lean and and it's STILL basically gradual as far as contact patch goes.
You are dangerously close to sounding like the OP. I had a picture on my office wall that stated, "If you assert it, then you must test it." I learned that lesson (and, thus, made the picture as a reminder) in court when I asserted something I thought was true, but never verified the assertion because I relied solely on my experience. The explanation for why that happened is another story. Let's just say that an attorney/expert relationship existed. The result embarrassed me and I will never let that happen again.

In the spirit of your claim, I suggest that you mount some different tires on your bike and charge hard-assed and full-tilt into the first turn you encounter at a track day without scrubbing them. Please video yourself. Any less than full-out makes your claim suspect.

I am prepared to be amazed. And, I/we-all might learn something truly valid.

Words are words, my friend. Prove your claim.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:54 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
You are dangerously close to sounding like the OP. I had a picture on my office wall that stated, "If you assert it, then you must test it." I learned that lesson (and, thus, made the picture as a reminder) in court when I asserted something I thought was true, but never verified the assertion because I relied solely on my experience. The explanation for why that happened is another story. Let's just say that an attorney/expert relationship existed. The result embarrassed me and I will never let that happen again.

In the spirit of your claim, I suggest that you mount some different tires on your bike and charge hard-assed and full-tilt into the first turn you encounter at a track day without scrubbing them. Please video yourself. Any less than full-out makes your claim suspect.

I am prepared to be amazed. And, I/we-all might learn something truly valid.

Words are words, my friend. Prove your claim.
You make a lot of BS statements , with the premise of being a paid expert witness for ambulance chasers as your claim to fame. You have no more credibility here than anyone else and I honestly believe , having read many of your posts ,that you don't know your a$$ from your elbow.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:10 PM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
You are dangerously close to sounding like the OP. I had a picture on my office wall that stated, "If you assert it, then you must test it." I learned that lesson (and, thus, made the picture as a reminder) in court when I asserted something I thought was true, but never verified the assertion because I relied solely on my experience. The explanation for why that happened is another story. Let's just say that an attorney/expert relationship existed. The result embarrassed me and I will never let that happen again.

In the spirit of your claim, I suggest that you mount some different tires on your bike and charge hard-assed and full-tilt into the first turn you encounter at a track day without scrubbing them. Please video yourself. Any less than full-out makes your claim suspect.

I am prepared to be amazed. And, I/we-all might learn something truly valid.

Words are words, my friend. Prove your claim.
Unfortunately your test isn't really a test, in that it depends on the attitude and skill of the person doing the test. Just about anybody could push "good" tires until they crashed, or successfully ride on "bad" tires. You need a repeatable, quantifiable test if you want to convince someone of the properties of a particular tire.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:40 PM   #807
erkmania
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Originally Posted by GSWayne View Post
Unfortunately your test isn't really a test, in that it depends on the attitude and skill of the person doing the test. Just about anybody could push "good" tires until they crashed, or successfully ride on "bad" tires. You need a repeatable, quantifiable test if you want to convince someone of the properties of a particular tire.
Please, don't read too much into it. You are completely right. I was chastising a big mouth that hasn't the ability to separate personal fact from real world fiction. I'm just asking joexr to back up his claims like I asked the OP.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:53 PM   #808
erkmania
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
You make a lot of BS statements , with the premise of being a paid expert witness for ambulance chasers as your claim to fame. You have no more credibility here than anyone else and I honestly believe , having read many of your posts ,that you don't know your a$$ from your elbow.
And, to think. I was really trying to be polite. Weren't you one of the folks that originally disagreed with the OP? Your previous post made you sound inconsistent and hypocritical and I was hoping to point that out without offending.

I guess I stepped in a shallow pond. I won't make that mistake with you again.
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:50 PM   #809
joexr
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Prove me wrong , expert.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:58 PM   #810
erkmania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Prove me wrong , expert.
About what exactly?

1) Shallow pond? (me about you);
2) Hypocrisy? (me questioning you);
3) Politeness? (me about...well, me);
4) "In seconds the sides will be scrubbed in." (joexr). The number of seconds on new tires?; or
5) "Unless you start from a dead stop while leaned over , with the speed a tire rotates , you can throw it over as fast as you want to to full lean and and it's STILL basically gradual as far as contact patch goes. " (joexr). How fast you can throw a bike onto its side without problem on new tires?

Are you too weak to do your own legwork?

There are so many things to pick from that you left me confused about what you are trying to say, AGAIN.

Lastly, I recommend that you and I take this this pettiness down to JoMamma and have a field day because I truly believe some folks really want to know about the "myth of scrubbing" and I, for one, have no desire to interfere with them.

Take a hint, Joe.
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erkmania screwed with this post 02-03-2014 at 06:03 PM
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