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Old 02-09-2014, 03:46 PM   #826
Tuna Helper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Yet they still keep reporting it in their annual emissions certifications. Quantities used, purchase invoices,etc. I haven't seen a tire manufacturer emissions certification that doesn't report using it.
Because it doesn't go in the mold, it goes on the tire before the tire goes in the mold.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:22 PM   #827
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Don't get too excited, but we are now only 56 posts behind the last car tire thread. I'm going to put the over-under at March 1, 2014 for when we surpass it.




















(yeah, yeah, I know a half dozen or so posts in here are mine)
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:30 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
Because it doesn't go in the mold, it goes on the tire before the tire goes in the mold.

So... do they don't do it or do they do do it?
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:24 PM   #829
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I never had to scuff my Dunlop racing slicks...I have always had to scuff my street tires. Maybe something is different with the slicks...IDK?
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:16 AM   #830
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Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
That's just me and I'm a scuffer.
Sounds like a confession...

Hi my name's Salzig and I'm scuffer
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:14 AM   #831
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Another interesting thread. What we learned from the real experts: There is no reason for someone to not be careful right after installing new tires. What we learned from reason: The scuffing myth or not a myth is a moot issue, since there are several factors that matter anyway when riding the initial miles with a new tire. Real conclusions: Like everything else, it is all in the wrist, and your mileage may vary. Or it is all in the fragile ego of a bluffing poster.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:24 PM   #832
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Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
Because it doesn't go in the mold, it goes on the tire before the tire goes in the mold.
No way. Do you have a clue how the tire is built and then molded? It is made up of a bunch of layers of rubber, belts, rim bead wires, more rubber bits, and on and on. It simply isn't something that would be done due to construction method. Besides, as I was informed, the chemical compound of the rubber makes the mold release unnecessary. The tire will pop out of the mold just fine. Again, this is motorcycle tires, not car.
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markk53 screwed with this post 02-10-2014 at 06:30 PM
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:27 PM   #833
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Originally Posted by Salzig View Post
Sounds like a confession...

Hi my name's Salzig and I'm scuffer

yep...

My name is Mark and I even scuff my Chuck Taylors before running or riding with them!

Oh! Shit! I just confessed to riding in my Converse.... Not in boots!
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:18 PM   #834
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We don't care if it's mold release, vulcanization byproducts migrating to the surface, UV protecting agent or whatever. One thign is sure; I've touched some "greasy" new tires and a lot of folks experienced the same. It's not just a "myth".
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:32 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
No way. Do you have a clue how the tire is built and then molded? It is made up of a bunch of layers of rubber, belts, rim bead wires, more rubber bits, and on and on. It simply isn't something that would be done due to construction method. Besides, as I was informed, the chemical compound of the rubber makes the mold release unnecessary. The tire will pop out of the mold just fine. Again, this is motorcycle tires, not car.

You big dummy. Check his profile,especially the part about occupation. How's that shoe taste?
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:14 PM   #836
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
No way. Do you have a clue how the tire is built and then molded? It is made up of a bunch of layers of rubber, belts, rim bead wires, more rubber bits, and on and on. It simply isn't something that would be done due to construction method. Besides, as I was informed, the chemical compound of the rubber makes the mold release unnecessary. The tire will pop out of the mold just fine. Again, this is motorcycle tires, not car.


Tuna builds tires for a living
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:08 AM   #837
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Nice. This thread just keeps on giving...
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:55 AM   #838
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This thread has 837 opinions and one piece of data. Could someone with slippery tires just duplicate the test I did so there would be ONE piece of data that shows how slippery a brand new tire is compared to one that has been "scuffed".

If doesn't really matter if they make tires out of chewing gum or teflon, what matters if they they start out very slippery and quickly get less slippery after being used. Why will people argue for hours and not spend 30 minutes doing a measurement?

If new motorcycle tires are sold in a dangerously slippery state I am surprised that no product liability lawyer has passed up the chance to dip into the deep pockets of the huge tire companies.

BTW I am not advocating riding hard and fast on new cold tires, for the reasons mentioned by several people in this thread, but that is a different issue than if new tires come from the factory with a very low friction coefficient.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:25 AM   #839
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Originally Posted by GSWayne View Post
It would be two discussions if race tires were made by a different process than street tires. I have no idea if that is a the case or not.

My measurement was while they were sliding, but the peak force before they started sliding was only a tiny amount greater than the sliding value i.e. the values of static and dynamic mu were close to the same. It would make sense that the tire makers would try to design their product without a big change between static and dynamic friction or it would be very difficult and dangerous to run the tires near the limit.


Wayne here is some "data". Two weeks ago I put new Michelin Commander II's on the FXLR. Dragging my fingers over the tread left a film on my fingers and there was a clearly visible wax like substance on the sidewalls. After putting tires and wheels back on the bike I did my usual ritual of wetting rag with lacquer thinner and wiping down the tread. After the wiping I did not get the slippery residue on my fingers and there was a noticeable increase in resistance when dragging fingers across the thread again. I tried some citrus based soap and a towel to clean up the side walls. No luck. I then resorted to a very stiff scrub brush and some very aggressive scrubbing to successfully remove the mystery residue. Taking out the bike for test ride cautiously testing the tires for a few miles to find a feel for them before "getting after it". End result, I didn't fall down so all was well with the world.

No animals were harmed, no fancy instruments were used and some of the speed rules were obeyed during this testing. Oh and the ends of my foot pegs were slightly reshaped.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:32 AM   #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSWayne View Post
This thread has 837 opinions and one piece of data.
I have to disagree with this assessment. An individual's experience IS data. And while I commend you for trying to bring some objectivity to this long debated subject, your test essentially had a statistically insignificant sample size. And at best could only shed light on those particular tires. Clearly, different tire companies have different compounds and different processes. And even within one tire company, they have numerous different tires made with different compounds and I would imagine different processes.

Maybe no tire companies use mold release (even though a poster here works for a tire company and his company does);
Maybe only some companies do;
Maybe it isn't mold release but a tire preservative;
Maybe it is some form of chemical leaching out of the tire;
Maybe it is simply greasy hands putting tires on.

While I have seen nothing in this thread to prove all new tires are slippery from mold release, I have seen plenty of "data" to indicate some tires may be slippery for some reason when new.
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