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Old 12-23-2013, 08:15 AM   #121
Center-stand
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..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I wouldn't recommend using DOT labeled race tires on the street, however. They would be very slippery because they won't come up to temperature riding around the neighborhood.
I'm not a racer, and have never ridden on race tires, but this comment prompts a couple of questions. I frequent a shop that specializes in vintage racers and see race bikes pretty often. The tires I see are soft and sticky to the touch, they feel as if they would have more traction cold than street tires.

1. How much heat do we need in our tires to ride around the neighborhood?

2. Are you suggesting that a street tire will get up to temp and have more traction riding around the neighborhood than a race tire would?

3. Is there something inherent in the rubber compound or design of race tires that make them heat up slower or require higher speeds to get warm than regular street tires?

The wear patterns on race tires vs. hard ridden street tires suggest that racing rubber is softer and more prone to wear and tear than street tires. I would have thought under the same riding conditions, speed, air pressure, weight, etc., on the street, race tires would provide more traction than street tires, hot and cold.

..
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:43 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
"Yea, thats it, My goal on here was just to be a total prick and not to help dispel a bullshit myth that does not allow people to be better riders.
As long as you keep making excuses they will continue to suffer."




One thing I still don't understand.... how does taking it easy for the first 100 miles on new tires make me a "bad" rider??
Wraith covered it well.
Confidence is a big part of riding, if you cannot trust your tires you are riding stiff and that translates down into the bike itself.
Lets say someone is on a new set of skins and see an obstacle in the road, you do not have time at all to "Think" you have to react, but you pause since you do not trust your tires, that split second could cost you big time.
You can apply that to riding in a corner, a place where if you go in to hot you should always go for it, but many people will not, and certainly if they are worried about their tires which equates a crash.

Im not saying people should not be careful, I am a huge advocate for keeping the hard riding to the track.
All I am trying to do is Eliminate something that people place blame on rather than looking at what could be the problem.
Again like with anything most people blame an object when in fact it was they themselves problem.

IF we revert back to the first video posted up of someone coming out of a store, he says "this is my new bike" and proceeds to eat shit.
This video is posted up all the time as an example of slick tires, rather than being an example of what happens when you chop the throttle.

Your bike/tires are capable of far, far more than all but the most experienced of riders.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:48 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
..



I'm not a racer, and have never ridden on race tires, but this comment prompts a couple of questions. I frequent a shop that specializes in vintage racers and see race bikes pretty often. The tires I see are soft and sticky to the touch, they feel as if they would have more traction cold than street tires.

1. How much heat do we need in our tires to ride around the neighborhood?

2. Are you suggesting that a street tire will get up to temp and have more traction riding around the neighborhood than a race tire would?

3. Is there something inherent in the rubber compound or design of race tires that make them heat up slower or require higher speeds to get warm than regular street tires?

The wear patterns on race tires vs. hard ridden street tires suggest that racing rubber is softer and more prone to wear and tear than street tires. I would have thought under the same riding conditions, speed, air pressure, weight, etc., on the street, race tires would provide more traction than street tires, hot and cold.

..
You hear reasons, like race compound tires have limited heat cycle lives, or they won't reach operating temps. I never really had a problem using DOT race tires on the street. Back when I raced I used my race take offs on my street bikes. Never had an issue doing that. Since all my riding in the south where street temps get quite high that may help with getting the temps up. Of course they do wear faster then standard street sport compound tires, so that along with the high price tag really makes it pointless to use them on the street.

I never push my bikes nearly as hard on the street as I did on a track, so I would never really see a traction advantage by using race tires on the street. For me it was just economics, why throw away a set of tires that I could still get some use out of.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogjaw View Post
I recently highsided my bike, posted the incident over in Faceplant... My tires were well scrubbed in, but it wasn't until I got the bike home and under some good light that I noticed this:



Although I'm sure that there were many factors involved, it appears to me that I ventured a little to far over into the unscrubbed "chicken strip" area, and it is possible that if that area had been scrubbed in, I may have had a bit more forgiveness. Is this 100 percent accurate? Probably not, but if pre scrubbing in the tires would help even a bit, and doesn't appear to do any harm, and the manufacturers suggest it for whatever reason, I will resume doing it in the future. I had always done it to previous bikes, but bought this bike on the road in Colorado and rode it home to Arkansas.
This also seems like hokum and hearsay,simply riding a bike straight down the hiway gets a tire hot enough to burn off any real or imagined mold release/slickum/what ever. Looking at that mark on your tire and saying that highside was from being unscuffed is a maybe guestimate.

If people highsided everytime they used a little more of the edge of their tire there would be so many highsides nobody would ride bikes.


Having said this,
About 14 years ago I DID highside an XS650 on a brand new back tire,I put the tire on,didnt ride the bike,forgot all about having a new tire and headed across an off camber section while turning onto a hiway,it went over instantly and I landed on my shoulder in two lanes of traffic,thankfully with no cars coming. So that many years ago I would say they were slick when new. I still heat new tires up going straight at speed,old habits die hard.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:25 AM   #125
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As a new rider on a used bike I have never had the "joy" of riding on a brand new set of tires. So I came to this thread completely unbiased hoping to learn something for when that day comes. And I did, I have read nearly every post in this thread, excluding the "you're mean and I hate you" bullshit that seemed to take over towards the end.

While I really can't form a fully-informed opinion on what causes this given the information in the thread I have read enough of the first-hand accounts to see new tires either themselves behave differently or make you as a rider behave differently. I personally would think that while there may or may not be a specific compound on a new tire the unabraded tires could act differently than a tire that has been ridden to develop an abraded surface. I don't recall the listed tire warnings saying "you must ride to get X compound off the tire" but the warnings are there.

I still think the most overlooked post, and ultimately one of the most important ones, came from DAKEZ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
"Being careful on new tires" is good advice and will hurt nobody.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
I'm not a racer, and have never ridden on race tires, but this comment prompts a couple of questions. I frequent a shop that specializes in vintage racers and see race bikes pretty often. The tires I see are soft and sticky to the touch, they feel as if they would have more traction cold than street tires.

1. How much heat do we need in our tires to ride around the neighborhood?

2. Are you suggesting that a street tire will get up to temp and have more traction riding around the neighborhood than a race tire would?

3. Is there something inherent in the rubber compound or design of race tires that make them heat up slower or require higher speeds to get warm than regular street tires?

The wear patterns on race tires vs. hard ridden street tires suggest that racing rubber is softer and more prone to wear and tear than street tires. I would have thought under the same riding conditions, speed, air pressure, weight, etc., on the street, race tires would provide more traction than street tires, hot and cold.
As far as I know racing tyres need higher temperatures for maximum performance, because they are designed that way, because they WILL inevitably have these higher temperatures under race conditions.
A street tyre is designed to need lower temperatures, because it in general won't reach the high temperatures. A touring tyre is designed for even lower temperatures, because it's more often used in the cold time of the year or in the wet.
However, most probably a cold racing tyre will be at least as sticky as a cold street tyre, maybe with the exception of near freezing temperatures. BUT a racing tyre will GAIN MUCH MORE grip when heating up, while a touring tyre will gain only a very small amount of grip, if at all, what makes it MUCH MORE PREDICTABLE. Go through a puddle with a racing tyre and ride the next corner as hard as the last one and you MIGHT end up lowsiding, while a touring tyre won't change - but with the touring tyre you can't push it as hard as with the race tyre at all, no matter if at temperature.
Also the threshold might be smaller and thus less controllable with a racing tyre, but that's only a guess of me.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:21 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnclem View Post
I don't know why I read threads like this, but I just couldn't look away.

I can't believe tire scuffing is the new oil thread.



Oil-use some.
Tires- get the round ones.
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:26 PM   #128
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Center-stand: You are a very smart fellow. Thanks for posting your questions to me. Both of my son's had tire contracts and all I did was change wheels, run them to racetireservice, and have new rubber mounted for the next change. Mind you, both Dunlop and Pirelli sent their reps to our garage to look at their product after every race. If they didn't like what they saw, they offered suspension changes as suggestions. So there was a lot of trial and error, as you might imagine in any form of motor racing.

1. DOT labeled race tires are cooked to around 180 degrees in tire warmers while waiting to take the track. At least that is what the tire warmer people claim. I don't know, but it takes about 30 minutes to heat them in a pinch. We liked an hour, and the the warmers cycle off and on so they can be on the tires all day if you want. Never is the wear of rubber an issue. It is all about grip.

2. Yes, non racing tires heat up much much quicker than DOT labeled race tires. I presume they are softer and more flexible. But I don't really know. I just know that DOT labeled race tires will not heat or maintain heat riding around town. That makes them a pretty bad choice for a street bike. Yes, I have used our take-off's on my Ducati, but not for performance. I was just looking to roll.

3. As I understand it, the race tire needs to hit a temp level well above the tire warmer, at which time its grip will peak. There is some sort of a chemical reaction that takes place. The chemical reaction makes the grip, but it only lasts so long. Every heat cycle after that has the same effect but is slower.

Tires intended for street have a different chemical composition, allowing for a better grip at our modest levels.

But still, scuffing new tires is a wives tale.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Center-stand View Post
..



I'm not a racer, and have never ridden on race tires, but this comment prompts a couple of questions. I frequent a shop that specializes in vintage racers and see race bikes pretty often. The tires I see are soft and sticky to the touch, they feel as if they would have more traction cold than street tires.

1. How much heat do we need in our tires to ride around the neighborhood?

2. Are you suggesting that a street tire will get up to temp and have more traction riding around the neighborhood than a race tire would?

3. Is there something inherent in the rubber compound or design of race tires that make them heat up slower or require higher speeds to get warm than regular street tires?

The wear patterns on race tires vs. hard ridden street tires suggest that racing rubber is softer and more prone to wear and tear than street tires. I would have thought under the same riding conditions, speed, air pressure, weight, etc., on the street, race tires would provide more traction than street tires, hot and cold.

..
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
I can't believe tire scuffing is the new oil thread.



Oil-use some.
Tires- get the round ones.
ever had bike leak oil on the back tyre
now which oil makes the back tyre
slip more or less?
cheers
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:11 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
I can't believe tire scuffing is the new oil thread.



Oil-use some.
Tires- get the round ones.
I liken it to the car tire thread.


I can't roll my eyes enough at some of the bullshit posted.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:14 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post

you do not have time at all to "Think" you have to react,
If you cannot think while riding, you cannot maximize control. That includes braking and traction control.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:27 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
you do not have time at all to "Think" you have to react


if you react without thinking, you are panicing and have lost control
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:18 PM   #133
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Louis Wambsganss "I believe the basic process is that the carcass is built up from the belts, chords, rubber blanks, etc, then it is sprayed with silicone and put in a hot press to shape and imprint the stackup into a functional tire."

Tuna. Is this what you're saying? If he's correct I got the concept. Don't do a stealth video if it might jeopardize your job man! But thanks for offering.

MT Wallet screwed with this post 12-23-2013 at 06:23 PM
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:25 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingoff View Post
ever had bike leak oil on the back tyre
now which oil makes the back tyre
slip more or less?
cheers

Which makes the tire slicker? Synthetic or dino?
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:30 PM   #135
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-qf2qOYCJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSgWKLkv9o
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