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Old 12-27-2013, 07:29 PM   #16
trainman
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Which ever Japanese manufacture that can re-due their 650 dual sport first will take the led with a bike that everyone wants. Be it the, DR 650, KLR 650, or the XR650L Were talking, 6-speed trans, fuel injection, large fuel tank 6.0 gals., windshield, comfort seat, only the KLR 650 offers some of these features. Maybe Yamaha could jump in there with a WR650R, wouldn't that be some bike. Who will take the led in the future, I would put my money on the 650 Honda to change first, with the success of the new CRF250L the CRF650L would be the next step up.

John
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
A 6 speed? The DR has a wide spread of gears as is. Cruises easily at 70mph and has a low enough low gear to get around with.
Because people love to think more is better. Even thought every professional motorcycle tester in every magazine, plus anyone who races them, seem to agree that the 5 speed is fine.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:44 PM   #18
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I hadn't lusted for a DR650 much until this summer, as I already have an A-model KLR, which is a pretty similar machine. (Yes, I know that about 6 million people will now chime in that the DR is better off-road, and all that. It's been discussed to hell. Also, I know the KTM guys pretty much consider anything that ain't orange a boat anchor, so we can consider that covered also.)

I really like the bike, particularly as I think the "new" KLR was in many ways a step in the wrong direction for what I want in this sort of bike.

As I said before, I'd like to see an 18" wheel on the rear. The tire choices are so much better for 18" wheels.

I'd like to see a six-speed. I know that Suzuki can produce a great six speed. My first six speed was a GS400, and the tranny was remarkably good. My DL650 had one of the nicest shifting six-speeds I've ever ridden. If Yamaha could stick a six on the XT225, there's little solid cost argument against it.

Fool Infection? I don't think it needs it, although I had no problems with the FI on the DL. However, both weight and complexity argue against it in my book. The sucker smogs now. I don't see how altering the gearing would change that.

As to a larger tank, the dual-sports I have all have aftermarket plastic tanks anyway. I tend to drop things, and plastic is so much more forgiving. I usually change bars, mirrors, grips, seats, pegs and the like to my tastes.

There's nothing wrong with the seat that a Seat Concepts kit won't fix. Compared to the original seat on my DRZ, the thing's a sofa.

It would be nice if they offered a factory peg lowering kit standard. One of the things that prompted my decision to buy my KLR in the first place was that the ergos felt cramped for my big frame. I know that this can be altered by changing bars, seat height, and a bunch of other little things. I would like it to be a little closer to a fit out of the box. They accommodate the inseam-challenged, why not help the big guys out a little?

I think that what appeals about the DR is the overall simplicity. There's still a place for a non-complicated, air/oil cooled dual-sport. I realize it's not the best performer, not the fastest, and all that. It still has its place.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #19
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I'm sure many could manage with a well spaced 4 speed, even 3. Doug Henry raced the YZf400 in SX with what, 2 operating gears? No more than 3, the 4th was blocked out and plastic to fit the rules as I recall. Do you want a 3 gears cause a race bike had 3?


6 gears in a WR trans, like the TE610/630, is awesome. They could simply copy those ratios and it would be a better bike with only that.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainman View Post
Which ever Japanese manufacture that can re-due their 650 dual sport first will take the led with a bike that everyone wants. Be it the, DR 650, KLR 650, or the XR650L Were talking, 6-speed trans, fuel injection, large fuel tank 6.0 gals., windshield, comfort seat, only the KLR 650 offers some of these features. Maybe Yamaha could jump in there with a WR650R, wouldn't that be some bike. Who will take the led in the future, I would put my money on the 650 Honda to change first, with the success of the new CRF250L the CRF650L would be the next step up.

John

...or Yamaha just give us their Tenere 660 .
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #21
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Modern ergos. Basically copy a 690 in bar/seat/pegs. They could do more with 500cc water cooled and injected, lighter, smaller, better packaging. 6 WR gears. DRZ500R. 50 HP, tank options from 3 to 6g.
This. Leave the DR alone. It's almost the last of its kind and the aftermarket allows you to make it what YOU want.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:42 PM   #22
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That really makes a lot of sense. Really, there's a lot in the market for faired, over-sophisticated machines offering all the gizmos that they think we need. Many a day, I'd gladly trade a little sophistication for less weight and more simplicity.

Quote:
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This. Leave the DR alone. It's almost the last of its kind and the aftermarket allows you to make it what YOU want.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:46 PM   #23
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
If/When they update anything, I'd hope for backwards parts compatibility with the current model.
Indeed.

I'd hate to purchase a DR and then have a completly differnt animal come in and cause the value of my bike to drop with the quickness. Granted, not finding parts and such would not be much of an issue for several years down the road.

The 2013 XT250R went to F.I. this year. She is still air cooled. Something to keep an eye on.
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Tenere 660.
I hate to be a downer, but Yamaha should keep this Candy Yam away from North America.
It would be just a microcosm of the Super Tenere.
Those with the cash and are not into fat heavy thumpers would go KTM.
Those with cash and want to have some more style and class would go Sertao.
Those who pick up a magazine and who are frugal would go KLR.
Those who spend time on the web Trolling around would go 1996+ Mighty DR.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #24
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Very good suggestions, and frankly I believe most of these are valid. We may be better off having these parts provided on a voluntary basis from the free and competitive market. The old expression about how when the government produces something, the final result is often something that no one actually wanted -- at a very high cost.



Look at the 'off-road parts' offered by the big-four Japanese (and other) companies. These parts are usually not as good as those from the independent manufacturers, and priced much higher. Suzuki offering us a good, relatively-inexpensive (look at KTM and BMW prices) formats to start with. For the majority of people, a stock DR650 will never be holding us back. For those that want more, it is available and costs little to make into as fancy as you want.

-The necessity and cost of a six-speed transmission seems unwarranted.

-Fuel-injection is great, but I doubt the power difference would be significant, and given that this is a sort of dirt-touring bike run at consistent throttle settings, responsiveness isn't costing me any races (different than in money-winning competitive motocross races).

-The hotter stators, better suspension and such would probably drive the prive of this bike to, or over the $10,000 range -- which would suck.

-The valves and cam changes probably wouldn't bring significant changes, without a total redesign of the rest of the engine.

-New forks/shock systems would require a redesign of the frame.

Hear the pennies falling down the well? I say kudos to Suzuki for leaving well-enough alone.*

*I do not mean to thread-jack, or bring about any bickering. I just think they make a pretty fine bike as is. Who knows, maybe some smart Suzuki engineers read these forums and could make a 'new improved!' DR650 2.0, as well as keep stamping out the DR650 1.0. Now that would be cool!
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:25 PM   #25
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6 speed. Then a 14 tooth counter sprocket would be perfect for pretty much everything.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #26
Canuman
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I've found that stator upgrades can actually be pretty reasonable. It's not exactly rocket science, just getting more windings on. Given the climate that I ride in, having the ability to run a heated liner is a really good safety feature. There's no reason that they couldn't squeeze a few more watts out and not bump up the price too much.

As to the suspension, you can throw in a set of Ricor Intiminators or the like and markedly improve the valving on the front. There's no reason that a better rear shock couldn't be fitted in the same geometry, also, but I suppose suspension set-up is a pretty personal thing. I threw an Eibach spring on my KLX 200, properly sprung for my heft, and it made a world of difference. The same thing will happen to the DRZ this winter. It cost $85.

However, the real joy of a bike of this sort is to set it up to your tastes on your budget at your pace. I agree, the basic package is pretty good starting material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REALGRAVEROBBER View Post
V

-The hotter stators, better suspension and such would probably drive the price of this bike to, or over the $10,000 range -- which would suck.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:42 PM   #27
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Wink

-lighter overall package <140 kg
(lighter exhaust, lighter handlebars, plastic gas tank, etc)
-18" back wheel
-better (adjustable) suspension
-larger plastic gas tank
-smaller turnlights
-6 speed
-FI
-maybe a small windshield
-updated handguards
-maybe hydraulic clutch ?
-modern odometer / spedometer
-some more ground clearance
-wider pegs
-plastic bashplate
-better mirrors (longer, lighter, etc)
-reffresh on design but still be practical and rugged
-black rims
-more easy access to air filter
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:47 PM   #28
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Either the price on the DR should drop by over 1k or Suzuki should actually be doing something to justify its current price, which they haven't.

They have made the same model for the last 10 years and have continually increased the price on it. The RD costs which are the real downfall on these bikes, have been long since payed off. There is nothing the DR offers that justifies its current price beyond that people keep buying new ones and the other Asian dual sports are almost just as dated or more(except the yam which isn't in the US).

It's like their each afraid to improve as this would result in the other side improving to and actual competition would exist.

As per the person that says aftermarket, aftermarket parts are universally over priced and more expensive then the initial mfg, this is on top of the fact you still have to buy the stock part.

Ocky screwed with this post 12-27-2013 at 11:06 PM
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:38 PM   #29
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Drz500

They could use the DRZ forks and shock from the parts bin. Stiffer springs too for heavier riders and decent valving specs.
Also the rear 18" wheel.
A safari 17L tank/or choice of a 30L tank. (how many litres in a US gallon anyway?)

OR suzuki could add a 450 kit to the DRZ, fit different gears for a 5 speed wide ratio box ( same as the ACT) and drop the 650 from it's line altogether.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:41 AM   #30
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Now I know why they make KTM's, for those who want all the performance upgrades and are willing to pay for it. I personally think that adding FI to the Japaneses bikes would do it for me, I can handle the rest. After having four KLR 650's I'm truly a fan of this bike, but did along the way buy a BMW 650 Dakar and it's was truly a better bike all the way around. I buy my bikes to ride pretty much stock, so upgrading exhaust, suspension, etc. has never been my thing, if I wanted that I would be on a KTM and not screwing around with a bike that needs a total makeover to be a good off road bike. Personally buying a DR 650 or the XR650L never made sense to me either, why should I buy a bike then have to add a larger tank, rear rack, and a fuel tank just to equal to the KLR 650. True those two bikes are better off road bikes them the KLR 650, but I don't ride where weight, power, etc. is a factor for my style of riding, I'm a 75-25% rider. I thought I read somewhere that all bikes that come to the US in 2015 would have FI, but maybe it was just someone posting there wish list. We all have our wish list and since the manufactures build what makes them money and try to keep the price inline where they can still sell their products, your going to get what they give us. Would you pay $7500 for a 650 Japanese dual sport, probably not.

John
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