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Old 01-09-2014, 02:33 PM   #136
DireWolf
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Another stupid Harley thread!

Woo HOOOO!

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Old 01-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #137
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another stupid harley thread!

Woo hoooo!

+1
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:45 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
Another stupid Harley rider thread!

Woo HOOOO!

fixt

My little brother falls squarely into the 'ride in a t-shirt and jeans' category and thinks I'm for wearing my Whale Foreskin suit. I've crashed on a bicycle: Half the speed (or less), 1/20th of the weight. Wearing no gear effing HURTS!

In fact my user name comes from the fact that I ate pavement on my bmx bike delivering papers as a teenager. I can tell you from personal experience that pavement does NOT taste good.

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Old 01-09-2014, 03:09 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I've crashed on a bicycle: Half the speed (or less), 1/20th of the weight. Wearing no gear effing HURTS!
My last 'off' was only a pair of roller-blades. Man it hurt hitting the concrete, couldn't move my wrist for weeks.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:18 PM   #140
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The issue is safety. You're line of logic has been that riders wearing little or no gear are safer than those wearing more gear because they go slower.
.
No that's not my logic.

I stated my belief why some HD riders don't wear gear in the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread then responded to an inmates suggestion that if you wear gear you'll live longer if not you die sooner.

My contention has always been for some gear results in increased risk taking.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #141
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If wearing more protective gear makes a rider take increased risk (so not a good idea), to be consistent you'd also have to believe that car seat belts make drivers take increased risks, for exactly the same reason.

Both are devices that really have no purpose when everything is going to plan. Both only have the function of reducing or eliminating injury in the event of an accident. So if more protective gear makes riders takes greater risks because they believe they will suffer less injury, then surely motorist will also take greater risks driving a car when wearing a seat belt, fitted with air bags, ABS, improved crumple zone design, anti-swerve control, etc. etc.

We should therefore remove all the safety improvements to cars of the past 40+ years. This will then make everyone fell way more vulnerable driving these death traps, they'll drive slower, and we'll all be safer.
I'm all in favor: cars would look so much nicer too.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
No that's not my logic.

I stated my belief why some HD riders don't wear gear in the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread then responded to an inmates suggestion that if you wear gear you'll live longer if not you die sooner.

My contention has always been for some gear results in increased risk taking.
I noticed last year that when I rode sans helmet I tended to hoon it up a bit more.
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Old 01-09-2014, 04:03 PM   #143
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Can't say I know to many people who think like that. Everyone I know doesn't really want the hassle of the accident itself
Of course nobody "wants" to crash. But they just don't care because of the feeling that nothing will hurt them. Good for you if you're at some hidden place where the people around you don't think that way.
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:52 PM   #144
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My contention has always been for some gear results in increased risk taking.
Yea, I get that..... and this implies more likely to get hurt (otherwise who cares). And I keep responding that the very fact of wearing less gear increases the chance of seriously hurting yourself more than any increase in speed (there I'll even agree that point for the sake of the discussion).

If someone want to wear less gear, just do it. But like so much of the discussion on protective gear, be honest why you do it, and don't try and rationalist it with questionable logic.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:51 PM   #145
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Yea, I get that..... and this implies more likely to get hurt (otherwise who cares). And I keep responding that the very fact of wearing less gear increases the chance of seriously hurting yourself more than any increase in speed (there I'll even agree that point for the sake of the discussion).

If someone want to wear less gear, just do it. But like so much of the discussion on protective gear, be honest why you do it, and don't try and rationalist it with questionable logic.
No it implies the attitude "I have on gear so if I do go down while pushing harder, I'm less likely to get hurt than if not wearing gear".

Maybe you don't do this, maybe most don't do this, but I do it and I rationalize it (because I really like pushing it, especially on the DR and XR) just that way.

I've got more protection on so if I go down I'm less likely to get seriously hurt so I can tick it up a notch. When I have less gear on I drop it down a notch because if I go down I'm more likely to get hurt and so when riding less aggressively I'm less likely to go down.

Has worked well for me for about 40 years. Only been down on the street 3 times, all low sides in poor traction at speeds less than 20 mph, first with helmet and shorts, the next 2 without helmet and shorts, no gloves, no boots. First one some moderate forearm road rash, second one outside thigh and calf deep road rash, third one only small minor shoulder rash. Head with or without helmet never touched the ground surface. All three incidents I was going too fast for road conditions, 100% my fault. Learned some things about traction and what to look for in the road that suggests limited traction. Haven't had an issue since, now wear a helmet 99% of the time.

BTW, rash hurt but not that much, bulging cervical disk (not a bike get off injury) hurt ten times more than road rash, couldn't function without round the clock narcotics until an epidural block was given.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:32 PM   #146
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No it implies the attitude "I have on gear so if I do go down while pushing harder, I'm less likely to get hurt than if not wearing gear".

I've got more protection on so if I go down I'm less likely to get seriously hurt so I can tick it up a notch. When I have less gear on I drop it down a notch because if I go down I'm more likely to get hurt and so when riding less aggressively I'm less likely to go down.
I appreciate you think that way, I really do as you keep telling me exactly the same thing over and over. But not once have you even acknowledged, let alone refuted my critique of your logic. That being you believe your safer wearing less protective gear because you'll ride slower. That's just the inverse of what you keep writing.

My very last shot ........ I promise.

As with all vehicle collisions, the risk and seriousness of injury increases with impact speed. Nevertheless 90% of all injuries tended to occur at less than 60km/h and some 85% of AIS I to 3 injuries at less than 50km/h.

It is clear that the majority of motorcycle collisions continue to take place at relatively low speeds and, although injury severity increases with impact speed, a substantial proportion of serious injuries and fatalities occur at modest speeds.
Motorcycle Safety - TRL581

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:10 AM   #147
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That stat is meaaningless unless you know howw many crashes were at under 50kmh
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:42 AM   #148
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That stat is meaaningless unless you know howw many crashes were at under 50kmh
For the 24,400 injuries examined, 27,133 were incurred when the the bike was travelling at less than 60kph.

Personally I think saying most riders get injured when the bike is actually travelling relatively slow is just as informative.

And for anyone bored enough to read the report, it actually says the biggest problem is not beginning riders or younger hotshots, but older returning riders. This is consistent with my own observations. What type of bikes do older returning riders tend to favor, big BMW tourers and ..........
.

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Old 01-10-2014, 02:47 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
For the 24,400 injuries examined, 27,133 were incurred when the the bike was travelling at less than 60kph.

Personally I think saying most riders get injured when the bike is actually travelling relatively slow is just as informative.

And for anyone bored enough to read the report, it actually says the biggest problem is not beginning riders or younger hotshots, but older returning riders. This is consistent with my own observations. What type of bikes do older returning riders tend to favor, big BMW tourers and ..........
.
Your numbers are screwed up. The total is less than the subset.
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:56 AM   #150
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Personally I think saying most riders get injured when the bike is actually travelling relatively slow is just as informative.

.
They crashed at 49kmh. So they probably were doing 90-100 kmh. Thats hardly slow.

I call slow less than 40kmh, so the riders would have to speed up to get to 49kmh
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