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Old 01-09-2014, 08:55 AM   #121
blk-betty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Your assumption is that a slower largely unprotected rider is safer than a faster rider wearing full safety gear. I totally disagree with that assumption.
Not my assumption at all. My experience is those fully geared ride faster, take more risks, etc.

Just for the record, I wear gear.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:56 AM   #122
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No matter what your stand on gear is, its all about odds, not guarantees......................



..............and what you're betting on is your life.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:02 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I think this is likely the case, though the "non-conformist" part I am not so sure of. Many are actually conforming!

Jim
Yep, but they are conforming with their cohorts of HD riders who are a small segment of the US population which is who they practicing non-conformist behaviors. Kinda like the punk rockers of the 80-90s, they all pretty much looked alike amongst themselves but far different than the vast majority of non punk rockers.

The pirate crowd is really no different than the whale skin crowd in regards to conformity, just there aren't as many whale skins as there are pirates.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:12 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
I'm taking it you meant to say "don't give a shit about crashing because the insurance pays for it". Can't say I know to many people who think like that. Everyone I know doesn't really want the hassle of the accident itself, their car being off the road being repaired for possibly months, and their repaired car never being as good as it was before the accident.
PSA

Take caution to avoid getting sucked into Wraith Riders' web of ridiculousness.

There is a reason you will see posts of his often go unanswered. He lives on another planet and will make the most absurd arguments conceivable. It is undetermined whether he is baiting or is really just completely out of touch. Also, his tenuous grasp of English seems to complicate things yet further, as you have pointed out.

The "Ignore" feature, found under the "User Lists" drop-menu in his public profile seems to be the most popular method of achieving this end.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:25 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider View Post
" risk homeostasis " There was a study done on accident rates after ABS became standard on most cars. It found that initially accident rates dropped mainly due to better braking. After a few months, as drivers became accustomed to reduced braking distances, accident rates climbed back to previous levels.
No matter what safety measures we employ people will strive to overcome them.
I fall into the camp of improved riding skills save more hide than all the gear in the world.
If you think ABS and additional safety features haven't made a difference in cages, please explain the fatalities per mile driven trends from the last 90 years (including significantly increased speed limits, vehicles on the road, miles driven and distracted driving).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US...hs_per_VMT.png
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:34 AM   #126
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If you think ABS and additional safety features haven't made a difference in cages, please explain the fatalities per mile driven trends from the last 90 years (including significantly increased speed limits, vehicles on the road and miles driven).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US...hs_per_VMT.png
I think you missed his point.

A study (not his opinion) showed that after adding a safety feature there was an immediate change for the better.

After a period of time this change was less evident.

It exemplifies how people adapt to changing technology, not that ABS isn't effective in saving lives.

The results of the study supports arguing a point about human behavior, rather than one disputing long term safety statistics overall.

As regards this thread, it might support blk-betty's opinion about how going from no gear to gear could cause a temporary increase in a rider's false sense of security, and how in the long run the same rider may likely go back to riding with the same degree of caution as before.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:42 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I think you missed his point.

A study (not his opinion) showed that after adding a safety feature there was an immediate change for the better.

After a period of time this change was less evident.

It exemplifies how people adapt to changing technology, not that ABS isn't effective in saving lives.

The results of the study supports arguing a point about human behavior, rather than one disputing long term safety statistics overall.

As regards this thread, it might support blk-betty's opinion about how going from no gear to gear could cause a temporary increase in a rider's false sense of security, and how in the long run the same rider may likely go back to riding with the same degree of caution as before.
Yep. Missed that.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I think you missed his point.

A study (not his opinion) showed that after adding a safety feature there was an immediate change for the better.

After a period of time this change was less evident.

It exemplifies how people adapt to changing technology, not that ABS isn't effective in saving lives.

The results of the study supports arguing a point about human behavior, rather than one disputing long term safety statistics overall.

As regards this thread, it might support blk-betty's opinion about how going from no gear to gear could cause a temporary increase in a rider's false sense of security, and how in the long run the same rider may likely go back to riding with the same degree of caution as before.
^
This
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:45 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post

How do you catch a unique rabbit?


Unique up on it.
How do you catch a Tame Rabbit?





























Tame way!

Jim
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:48 PM   #130
JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Not my assumption at all. My experience is those fully geared ride faster, take more risks, etc.

Just for the record, I wear gear.
So you ride faster and take more risks?

Not everyone does what you do!

Jim
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:49 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Yep, but they are conforming with their cohorts of HD riders who are a small segment of the US population which is who they practicing non-conformist behaviors. Kinda like the punk rockers of the 80-90s, they all pretty much looked alike amongst themselves but far different than the vast majority of non punk rockers.

The pirate crowd is really no different than the whale skin crowd in regards to conformity, just there aren't as many whale skins as there are pirates.


True.

JiM
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:57 PM   #132
MotoTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex

How do you catch a unique rabbit?


Unique up on it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
How do you catch a Tame Rabbit?

Tame way!

Jim
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We'll be here all week folks

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Old 01-09-2014, 01:09 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
So you ride faster and take more risks?

Not everyone does what you do!

Jim
Yea, I guess I do. On the XR1200 I ride more aggressivley than I do on the Road Glide. When on the DR650 I ride more aggressivley than either of the HDs, but most of that is off-pavement, and I wear the most gear on the DR and the least on the RG...but helmets on all 3.

Of course it's a funciton of the bike and it's intended purpose/capabilities. To be consistent I should wear the same gear on each bike but what's the fun in that?
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:12 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Not my assumption at all. My experience is those fully geared ride faster, take more risks, etc.

Just for the record, I wear gear.
The issue is safety. You're line of logic has been that riders wearing little or no gear are safer than those wearing more gear because they go slower. If they buy more and better gear they'll ride faster, take more risks, and so are actually less safe.

If I buy a new pair of better constructed leather pants, rather than being better protected in the event of an accident that I'd hoped, I've actually become less safe. You've convinced me..... I throwing all my gear away and going back to riding around in shorts and flip-flops like I did 40 years ago as I want to become a really safe rider.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:29 PM   #135
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Hell Bent for Denim

"BIKERS" wear Denim and leather and are minimalists.

"Riders" Wear Riding Gear. Some all of it others some of it.

Most Cruiser Riders are (or want to be) "BIKERS"

It really is that simple.
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