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Old 01-19-2014, 05:47 AM   #31
GJ990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misery Goat View Post
The solution is called preload.

Not for me it wasn't. For me it was a different tire.
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Old 01-19-2014, 01:53 PM   #32
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Second Update:

Mounted up a new Michelin T63 to the front this morning and then rode for 60 miles. Just to recap, I'm still running with the Ride On product in the inner tube. With the new tire, I also removed the wheel balance weights. The road conditions were a mix of surface streets, freeway, hwy, asphalt and grooved concrete.

It probably comes as no surprise to many of you, but changing the front tire was the cure for my wobble issues. Rode steady and stable on any and all road conditions at any speed. Make me a heck of a lot happier with the new bike.

The T63 isn't an aggressive knobby tire, but still has enough there to make it good probably most conditions, but I'm guessing not great off road. For now, I'm happy with that. It will be a long while before I start single-tracking this beast, and most dirt it will see will probably be fire roads for the time being. And when it does see dirt I'm expecting to be loaded down and not trying to set any time/speed records off road. I have my CRF450R for that kind of riding.

ben
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:07 AM   #33
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Last update for this thread -- at least I think so...

I rode the bike about 250 miles on Monday. Rode from Phoenix area to Sedona (Arizona). The T63 did very well. Was two up with the wife on back. Even rode on a rock-infested jeep road for about 5-6 miles.

The more miles I put on the new tire the better it gets. On the way home there was some wind and buffeting from big trucks, rough pavement, etc., it just took it all in stride. My butt was a little sore near the end though, damn hard seat for an overland bike...

ben
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:24 AM   #34
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It seems to he related, at least somewhat, to the size of the knobs 😳. The KBB on my bike also has a larger, less aggressive knob design. So, I guess it's a compromise between all out dirt vs dual sport.

Yea, yea, let the large knob jokes commence.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:23 AM   #35
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The biggest reason 908's are "loose" is besause they are in fact...a KNOBBY!

Yes propperly setup suspension, steering dampners and the like help it considerably. The real deal is whether you feel comfortable enough as a rider to deal with a wiggly, loose riding bike.

I had a set of 908's that were mostly worn and not so great for the dirt anylonger. I kept them on and commuted on them for the rest of their life. I like to get my money's worht out of my tires . My commute is CA HWY680 cruising anywhere between 80-85. Yes, they were loose. Keep a loose grip on the bars and let it wander a bit. Just Imagine you are riding through a really loose trail. Its not for everyone but some dont mind.

I say do whats comfortable for you. The best thing you can have on your motorcycle is confidence.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:53 AM   #36
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I ran a 908 rear with a MT21 front and it would wag at a given speed.
By playing with the geometry I was able to eliminate that.
There was never any issues with TKC80's or the stock Scorpion A/T's.

I would say they both contributed to the imbalance and I had the same wag issue with an MT21 front on my DRZ400.

I put a Kenda Trackmaster 761 on the DRZ, stable as could be, so the MT21 is a bit particular to set up.

I liked the 908 in the dirt in Baja and it was fun to light it up sideways up my drive on the way home too! ;-)
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc99 View Post
I ran a 908 rear with a MT21 front and it would wag at a given speed.
By playing with the geometry I was able to eliminate that.
There was never any issues with TKC80's or the stock Scorpion A/T's.

I would say they both contributed to the imbalance and I had the same wag issue with an MT21 front on my DRZ400.

I put a Kenda Trackmaster 761 on the DRZ, stable as could be, so the MT21 is a bit particular to set up.

I liked the 908 in the dirt in Baja and it was fun to light it up sideways up my drive on the way home too! ;-)
Glad I didn't try the MT21, it was that or the T63 for choices in stock at the dealer.

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Old 01-24-2014, 03:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misery Goat View Post
The solution is called preload.
i think by far the best solution is called a steering damper

Ive been running a Mt21 front and D908 Rear combo on my SE for the last 17000 miles - the first 5000 or so were without a steering damper and the bike would slightly weave at speed when i accerated hard - never unduly woried me but i always had a slight concern in the back of my mind it might go into a tank slapper....


...anyways a couple of years ago i fitted a ralle moto steering damper it and transformed the feel of the bike - made it far more stable and gave the mighty SE much more of a 'road bike feel'.

http://www.rallemoto.com/contents/en-us/d7.html

Its up to you you can try adjusting suspension settings etc till the cows come home, but if you want to get rid of the risk of a major tank slapper once and for all in my book the only answer is a steering damper.

Safe riding lads!!
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:25 AM   #39
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Make sure the sequence of properly installing a front wheel is followed. So many folks just torque their stuff up without properly preventing fork binding. These principles are demonstrated here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siSIue3IWeI

Love the D606 knobby especially when pushing the big 990S offroad. Like a rudder compared to other tires! For me, the high speed wobble was something that was so rare (I hate slab!) that it was worth the tradeoff.

My setup is not stock as have a steering damper with an Emig front triple and damper so it is more pronounced with the steeper angle. At 90+mph dropping the left hand off the bar allows things to settle down although the wobble did not ever try to approach a slapper.

If you do that much slab, you should find another tire for sure. The TKCs are a good compromise from all accounts.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ990 View Post
Not for me it wasn't. For me it was a different tire.
If your sag is correct you wouldn't need a different tire.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:03 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer View Post
i think by far the best solution is called a steering damper

Ive been running a Mt21 front and D908 Rear combo on my SE for the last 17000 miles - the first 5000 or so were without a steering damper and the bike would slightly weave at speed when i accerated hard - never unduly woried me but i always had a slight concern in the back of my mind it might go into a tank slapper....


...anyways a couple of years ago i fitted a ralle moto steering damper it and transformed the feel of the bike - made it far more stable and gave the mighty SE much more of a 'road bike feel'.

http://www.rallemoto.com/contents/en-us/d7.html

Its up to you you can try adjusting suspension settings etc till the cows come home, but if you want to get rid of the risk of a major tank slapper once and for all in my book the only answer is a steering damper.

Safe riding lads!!
The SE is inherently twitchy up front and a steering damper helps to some extent imo. but you'll still get the death wobble if your sag's not right.

I ran MT21s all over South America and never had a problem with the death wobble, and that goes for all the tires people think are responsible for the death wobble. Every time I've had problems with the high speed wobble it's been remedied by fixing my sag.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:28 AM   #42
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The D606 nor the TKC fronts do NOT show this problem anything like that 908 front does. After I first wore out 2 of the the stock MT90s, I have gone through 2 TKC fronts and 4 D606 fronts before I tried the 908RR front 2 years ago and have been totally sold on it for it's off-road capability, predictability, AND it's significantly superior pinch-flat resistance at pressures below 30lbs. I have used the 908RR rear with all the 606s and 908s, but the Mefo was used in combo with the TKCs.

I have a steering damper, but the issue is still very much apparent with the 908 front, limiting me to 75 when new. With 1500 miles or so on a 908 front, it gets me to 85, maybe 90 before she wobbles. Oh, and the 908 only lasts me about 3-4k miles, while the 606 got me 6k. The TKCs gave me just under 10k, and the TKC still did 110mph easy, even new.

But, after 6+ years with this bike, my required "rush" is no longer received from doing 100mph on tarmac, like it was for the first few years when I was still afraid to push this beast off-road. With 55k miles experience, it's now much more fun to push it at 40-50mph on really bad dirt roads. So I now very rarely notice, or even care that the bike is limited to 75-85 on pavement.

EDIT: 2007 990 Adv standard
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:35 AM   #43
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I'll mention the loose surface predictability of the 908RR front again. It's ability for "feel" when slipping (pushing or oversteer in car-terms) at the limit, is waaay better than the other tires I've tried, and part of that is probly it's ability to run lower pressures without pinching on gnarly rocks.

Part of this better "feel" I'm describing is also likely due to my skill improvements. Maybe all of it, I dunno for sure. All I really know for sure is this beast is now a HOOT to drift sideways while leaning it over and turning HARD on a dirt or gravel road, and..... OMG, I LOVE THIS BIKE
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misery Goat View Post
If your sag is correct you wouldn't need a different tire.
+1

I never ran a combo I couldn't make work.

If you "need" a damper, you're just covering a problem with geometry.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:24 PM   #45
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the sensation you are experiencing is from the weight and stiffness of the carcass. This is an 8 ply tire that is designed to run at lower pressure and handle high impacts at racing speed. If you run the front tire at 32psi and try driving at highway speed you will have nothing but a dime shaped contact patch trying to follow the groves in the road. All you need to do is lower your pressure, you will never need more than 26psi on a loaded adventure and less pressure for 950 SE and the lighter the bike = even less.
Off road rocky sections I run 16-18 psi and 10-14 psi rear anything more the tire will not flex.
this is not an ordinary tire and the only thing that even comes close as far as stiff durable carcass is the Michelin Dessert but really only close in the rear and still only a 6ply front.

Bottom line is lower the psi on the front and once you do you will be able to lay it over all the way onto the side knobs in corners ride it. if the front starts to cup it is a non directional tire, flip it around and it will wear itself back square.

If anyone wants to get rid of their 908 I would be happy to take if off your hands.
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