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Old 01-27-2014, 12:37 PM   #46
armourbl OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bt390 View Post
the sensation you are experiencing is from the weight and stiffness of the carcass. This is an 8 ply tire that is designed to run at lower pressure and handle high impacts at racing speed. If you run the front tire at 32psi and try driving at highway speed you will have nothing but a dime shaped contact patch trying to follow the groves in the road. All you need to do is lower your pressure, you will never need more than 26psi on a loaded adventure and less pressure for 950 SE and the lighter the bike = even less.
Off road rocky sections I run 16-18 psi and 10-14 psi rear anything more the tire will not flex.
this is not an ordinary tire and the only thing that even comes close as far as stiff durable carcass is the Michelin Dessert but really only close in the rear and still only a 6ply front.

Bottom line is lower the psi on the front and once you do you will be able to lay it over all the way onto the side knobs in corners ride it. if the front starts to cup it is a non directional tire, flip it around and it will wear itself back square.

If anyone wants to get rid of their 908 I would be happy to take if off your hands.
I don't mean to seem to doubt you, but if this is the solution then why isn't it more widely known? Running low pressure on the street, especially in hot climates like where I live, would likely result in a blow out/tube failure.

Are the lawyers in the way again? Why didn't KTM provide this information with the bike rather than recommending much higher pressure in their manual.

ben
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourbl View Post
I don't mean to seem to doubt you, but if this is the solution then why isn't it more widely known? Running low pressure on the street, especially in hot climates like where I live, would likely result in a blow out/tube failure.

Are the lawyers in the way again? Why didn't KTM provide this information with the bike rather than recommending much higher pressure in their manual.

ben
most tires you buy are a 4 ply tire. IE the TKC is a 4 ply and the Dunlop 606 is a 6py tire. tires are designed differently for a different purpose.
Example: you would not run a passenger car tire (4-6 ply) on a HD pickup hauling a 5th wheel trailer where you need an E rated 10 ply tire

I did not say to run the tire under inflated I said do not run the tire at max pressure of 32psi. All things are not created equally and there is not a one size fits all. Tire type, tread pattern, manufacturing style the type of ply used etc all make a difference and become a part of your suspension and handling characteristic of your machine. in order to get a feel for this you need to spend some time testing different combinations.
hope that helps.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:53 PM   #48
Apple Jam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bt390 View Post
the sensation you are experiencing is from the weight and stiffness of the carcass. This is an 8 ply tire that is designed to run at lower pressure and handle high impacts at racing speed. If you run the front tire at 32psi and try driving at highway speed you will have nothing but a dime shaped contact patch trying to follow the groves in the road. All you need to do is lower your pressure, you will never need more than 26psi on a loaded adventure and less pressure for 950 SE and the lighter the bike = even less.
Off road rocky sections I run 16-18 psi and 10-14 psi rear anything more the tire will not flex.
this is not an ordinary tire and the only thing that even comes close as far as stiff durable carcass is the Michelin Dessert but really only close in the rear and still only a 6ply front.

Bottom line is lower the psi on the front and once you do you will be able to lay it over all the way onto the side knobs in corners ride it. if the front starts to cup it is a non directional tire, flip it around and it will wear itself back square.

If anyone wants to get rid of their 908 I would be happy to take if off your hands.
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Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
All I really know for sure is this beast is now a HOOT to drift sideways while leaning it over and turning HARD on a dirt or gravel road, and..... OMG, I LOVE THIS BIKE
Not knowing exactly why the 908 front works so much better leaned over in dirt, I believe you put it into words. I did learn that the 908 front HATES the 32+ lbs I have always used in the 606 and TKC. I have been afraid to run it much lower than about 26/28 because I bent the crap out of two stock rims (at least 10-12 small dings and one HUGE 1"+ buckle in each), with the TKC and 606s, and then still put small dings in the harder narrower replacement Woody's 1.85 front rim with the 606s at 32+ lbs. Thanks for posting your low pressure experiences with the 908 front. I will try even lower pressures than I have allowed myself.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Jam View Post
Not knowing exactly why the 908 front works so much better leaned over in dirt, I believe you put it into words. I did learn that the 908 front HATES the 32+ lbs I have always used in the 606 and TKC. I have been afraid to run it much lower than about 26/28 because I bent the crap out of two stock rims (at least 10-12 small dings and one HUGE 1"+ buckle in each), with the TKC and 606s, and then still put small dings in the harder narrower replacement Woody's 1.85 front rim with the 606s at 32+ lbs. Thanks for posting your low pressure experiences with the 908 front. I will try even lower pressures than I have allowed myself.
I too had the same experience when using a TKC. The first ride out I taco'd the wheel down to the bead both sides, pulled it off and that was the last time for a TKC this tire is over priced and way over rated. If you run the 908 at what ever the ideal psi is for your application (this will take a little testing) you will be blown away at the potential. Like I had posted earlier this is unlike any other tire on the market, try and push it so that you are out of your comfort zone that is where it works the best.
Enjoy!
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:05 PM   #50
Apple Jam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourbl View Post
....if this is the solution then why isn't it more widely known? Running low pressure on the street, especially in hot climates like where I live, would likely result in a blow out/tube failure.

Are the lawyers in the way again? Why didn't KTM provide this information with the bike rather than recommending much higher pressure in their manual.

ben
I'll guess the higher pressures recommended are for "normal" hard-surface road use, where MOST of the buyers will spend MOST of their time. They know the dirt guys can think for themselves.

The big reason you hear so little information on the 908 front is due to it's very poor pavement manners on a bike that can normally do very well on highways at high speeds with most other tires. This takes it completely out of the running choices for many riders. I'm willing to live with these poor pavement manners now for the significant dirt improvements it offers, but I would not have when I first bought this bike and I still wanted to 100+ mph fairly regularly (on completely EMPTY Oregon Country two-lane only; time and a place, etc...)
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by bt390 View Post
...this (908) is unlike any other tire on the market, try and push it so that you are out of your comfort zone that is where it works the best.
Enjoy!
That is EXACTLY what I have learned. Push it harder than ever and it rewards !!
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:16 PM   #52
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There are a lot of guys on 450's that use a Tubliss system with the 908 in Baja and run can run the tire basically flat.

if this tire is used on the pavement at max psi it is no different than a 1 ton pickup with 10ply tires at 80psi unloaded, what kind of ride do you think you will have?
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:45 PM   #53
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I'm hearing you all. I have no doubt about its worthiness in the dirt. But, I must ride mine on the pavement to get to the dirt and I'll be damned if I can't ride it with confidence.

I have to admit, I didn't play with pressures much. When I rode the bike home, it was low on pressure, but I don't recall how much. I just know when I checked it I needed add air. I rode with it at 36 psi for about the first 500 miles of owning the bike. I've never had a bike before with tube tires that sees as much pavement as this bike will see. So I don't know what you can safely run for pressure and not risk a blow out of the tire or tube.

Temperatures here in Phoenix can get into 110 and above in the summer. Surface temps on pavement are ridiculous.

I may be tempted to try the tire again. But I need to hear a lot more about recommended pressures for various conditions including very hot pavement, even cold pavement. It can be 40 degrees in the morning and 80 in the afternoon right now here.

So far the T63 is working very well. I have none of the reservations I had with the 908. And I have to say for the fire roads I rode this past weekend, it tracked very well and predictable. Mind you I wasn't trying to purposely test the limits of traction other than straight line acceleration, but I did drift wide a couple of times and was able to tighten up the turn without incident despite the fearful words I was muttering inside my helmet at the moment...

All that being said, what are you 908 fans running for pressure on the rear tire on the pavement? What about in the dirt, when you are on rough terrain?

ben
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by armourbl View Post
I'm hearing you all. I have no doubt about its worthiness in the dirt. But, I must ride mine on the pavement to get to the dirt and I'll be damned if I can't ride it with confidence.

I have to admit, I didn't play with pressures much. When I rode the bike home, it was low on pressure, but I don't recall how much. I just know when I checked it I needed add air. I rode with it at 36 psi for about the first 500 miles of owning the bike. I've never had a bike before with tube tires that sees as much pavement as this bike will see. So I don't know what you can safely run for pressure and not risk a blow out of the tire or tube.

Temperatures here in Phoenix can get into 110 and above in the summer. Surface temps on pavement are ridiculous.

I may be tempted to try the tire again. But I need to hear a lot more about recommended pressures for various conditions including very hot pavement, even cold pavement. It can be 40 degrees in the morning and 80 in the afternoon right now here.

So far the T63 is working very well. I have none of the reservations I had with the 908. And I have to say for the fire roads I rode this past weekend, it tracked very well and predictable. Mind you I wasn't trying to purposely test the limits of traction other than straight line acceleration, but I did drift wide a couple of times and was able to tighten up the turn without incident despite the fearful words I was muttering inside my helmet at the moment...

All that being said, what are you 908 fans running for pressure on the rear tire on the pavement? What about in the dirt, when you are on rough terrain?

ben
have you set your SAG yet?


you have to know by now...you have to separate the opinions from the opinions....hahahaha

For me..the T63,TKC, M21, Karoo (any flavor) are not dirt tires...they are street tires that do ok on Fire Roads...

If you really look at the inmates that have tried all of the above as I have....you will see that the 606/908 combo is by far the favorite....
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:00 PM   #55
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have you set your SAG yet?
For argument sake lets say that I have. What should the rear shock sag be? The standard 100-105mm that I use on dirt bikes? Is this set first with the pre-load knob backed off to full soft? And, I still need to change the fork springs for my weight, so won't that leave the front and rear out of balance even still?

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Old 01-27-2014, 06:16 PM   #56
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As a stop gap measure been using a Kenda Big Block front tyre. Good in the dirt, great on the road. Combo with the 908 rear on the road is much better in the steering dept than the 908 front I was using previously.

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Old 01-27-2014, 06:19 PM   #57
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it is not a street tire it is a means to get to the dirt.


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Old 01-28-2014, 04:47 PM   #58
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So, I had two bikes with almost this same identical problem, the 2011 990 Dakar and a 2004 Honda Goldwing. Yep, that's right a Goldwing! So, after about 70,000 miles of wobble on the Goldwing, and numerous new and different type tires front and back I finally lowered the forks by about 10mm in the triple tree. That solved the wobble.

So, when I bought the KTM it had the wobble right out of the box. Adjusted the presets, no luck. It was frustrating, took it back, dealer said it was the tires. Rode them until I replaced with Heidenau's and then more. Over 32,000 miles still the wobble. I then tried the 10mm adjustment and bam, wobble was gone.

I know at least 4 other Dakar owners, some who had no wobble at all others who had one just like me. For some reason I can't convince anyone with the wobble to try this fix. I would like to know if I just got lucky or if this minor adjustment works for others.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:06 PM   #59
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So, I had two bikes with almost this same identical problem, the 2011 990 Dakar and a 2004 Honda Goldwing. Yep, that's right a Goldwing! So, after about 70,000 miles of wobble on the Goldwing, and numerous new and different type tires front and back I finally lowered the forks by about 10mm in the triple tree. That solved the wobble.

So, when I bought the KTM it had the wobble right out of the box. Adjusted the presets, no luck. It was frustrating, took it back, dealer said it was the tires. Rode them until I replaced with Heidenau's and then more. Over 32,000 miles still the wobble. I then tried the 10mm adjustment and bam, wobble was gone.

I know at least 4 other Dakar owners, some who had no wobble at all others who had one just like me. For some reason I can't convince anyone with the wobble to try this fix. I would like to know if I just got lucky or if this minor adjustment works for others.
You managed to correct for the rear SAG not being correct by adjusting the front...

Misery Goat and others have given the answer....Set the suspension....no more problem
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:28 PM   #60
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You managed to correct for the rear SAG not being correct by adjusting the front...

Misery Goat and others have given the answer....Set the suspension....no more problem
Suspension was set many times, including modified spring and valve set in forks and upgraded/rebuilt rear spring/shock, still problems!

Because one Dakar has this problem and the next one doesn't I believe the problem is the angle of the fork rake. It finds neutral and the natural oscillation between positive and negative fork pressure causes wobble. Sure, lowering or raising the fork, thereby changing the neutral point, is a bandaide. But the real fix would be to change the rake angle.

Fixing this, by the way, can also be done by changing the SAG in the same sort of bandaide approach.
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