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Old 01-31-2014, 01:52 AM   #151
dwoodward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
Could be wrong, but there's no hard numbers on the issue.
Yeah, not like someone posted a link to actual research earlier in the thread or anything.

Recent study posted elsewhere notes that humans will "see" what they expect to see; motorcycles being less common than cars, they look for (and see) cars. Also, because a motorcycle is narrow (and a DR200 narrower than an ST1300, for example) it's harder for drivers to determine distance and speed than a car.

Break up the pattern and make sure you don't blend into the cars around you. Sure, you can weave (Hi, DAKEZ) which helps them determine distance (and maybe speed) but that takes some attention on your part- like a headlight, your hi-viz is always on and requires no further action on your part.

Oh, and put yourself where they can see you. If I had a buck for every time I saw someone tailgating a delivery truck down a busy street... Doesn't matter what color you wear if you're hiding.

Is everyone going to see you? No- and it's foolish to think so. That's not a valid argument for making it harder to be seen.

Finally- agree with ttpete. If you keep finding yourself having problems with near-misses, figure out what the common element is...

dwoodward screwed with this post 01-31-2014 at 02:05 AM
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:07 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Last edited by dwoodward; Today at 02:05 AM.

Probably sums up my entire post, eh?
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:15 AM   #153
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I had an experience today which changed my mind on hi-viz. I now believe it can lead to accidents.

Riding to work today on a six lane major arterial road, coming toward me is a guy on a Suzuki gxsr. Sees me on my little commuter with full yellow jacket and decides he'll impress the dork with a wheelie. Manages to immediately loft it near complete vertical, rips the throttle shut to stop going completely backward, bike crash back down and he just manages to keep it all together after swerving completely out of control across three lanes.

He sure did make an impression on the dork.

So if I hadn't been wearing a yellow jacket he probably wouldn't have nearly written himself off. Hi-viz can be dangerous..........
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:16 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
I had an experience today which changed my mind on hi-viz. I now believe it can lead to accidents.

Riding to work today on a six lane major arterial road, coming toward me is a guy on a Suzuki gxsr. Sees me on my little commuter with full yellow jacket and decides he'll impress the dork with a wheelie. Manages to immediately loft it near complete vertical, rips the throttle shut to stop going completely backward, bike crash back down and he just manages to keep it all together after swerving completely out of control across three lanes.

He sure did make an impression on the dork.

So if I hadn't been wearing a yellow jacket he probably wouldn't have nearly written himself off. Hi-viz can be dangerous..........

He reminds me of The Mule in Isaac Asimov's Foundation series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_%28Foundation%29

Essentially, mutations and intentional deviants are hard to account for statistically.

On the other hand, maybe you've hit on a strategy for weeding out squids...
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:31 AM   #155
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Statistics also need to take into account that no one says, "oh yeah, I saw that bike and decided, heck, I can make it anyway," after the accident.

My first bike was totaled when I was riding up a street in town, doing the legal limit with my headlight on and wearing a white helmet. There were no cars in front of me. Up the street a Pontiac wagon put on his left turn signal and stopped to wait to make the turn. He was stopped long enough to stack three cars behind him. When I reached the intersection he turned left and I did a graceful swan dive over his car, leaving my bike behind me in the side of the car.

He told the officer that he never saw me. So why did he stop and wait with no traffic coming the other way, long enough to stack three cars? Oh, he saw me from the start and decided to go anyway. Witnesses at the scene nailed him to the wall with their accounts.

Being seen and being regarded as something to be concerned about are two different things, whether or not you are hi-vis.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:59 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward
like a headlight, your hi-viz is always on and requires no further action on your part
That is so wrong on so many levels, I can't believe you would post it.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:14 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
That is so wrong on so many levels, I can't believe you would post it.
What, do you have hi-viz gear that you have to turn on and/or adjust while riding?

He didn't say you shouldn't also actively do things to make your presence known, as well as riding in such a manner to avoid putting yourself in a bad situation. He was just pointing out that hi-viz gear doesn't require any effort to implement, other than putting it on before you get on the bike.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:48 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by jmq3rd View Post
What, do you have hi-viz gear that you have to turn on and/or adjust while riding?

He didn't say you shouldn't also actively do things to make your presence known, as well as riding in such a manner to avoid putting yourself in a bad situation. He was just pointing out that hi-viz gear doesn't require any effort to implement, other than putting it on before you get on the bike.
I think that there are those who have a problem with the concept of conspicuity. There is no single answer to being seen. Every individual thing done to be conspicuous is only part of the total answer.

And then we have those who think that using color and light makes them look like a wimp or a weenie.
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:57 AM   #159
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:00 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by DaLunk View Post
Statistics also need to take into account that no one says, "oh yeah, I saw that bike and decided, heck, I can make it anyway," after the accident.

My first bike was totaled when I was riding up a street in town, doing the legal limit with my headlight on and wearing a white helmet. There were no cars in front of me. Up the street a Pontiac wagon put on his left turn signal and stopped to wait to make the turn. He was stopped long enough to stack three cars behind him. When I reached the intersection he turned left and I did a graceful swan dive over his car, leaving my bike behind me in the side of the car.

He told the officer that he never saw me. So why did he stop and wait with no traffic coming the other way, long enough to stack three cars? Oh, he saw me from the start and decided to go anyway. Witnesses at the scene nailed him to the wall with their accounts.

Being seen and being regarded as something to be concerned about are two different things, whether or not you are hi-vis.

Just my thoughts.
Being seen as something out of the ordinary (i.e., conspicuous) can certainly get you fixated upon, which can be detrimental to your health.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:13 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by popscycle View Post
Being seen as something out of the ordinary (i.e., conspicuous) can certainly get you fixated upon, which can be detrimental to your health.
Bullshit.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:37 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Bullshit.
Only partly...I knew a runner who due to the constraints of his job found that the most convenient time to run was after midnight. He wore his reflective gear but found that the drunks heading home from the bars had a tendency to drift his way all the time. After too many near misses he decided to dress in dark colors and wear no reflective gear and the problem went away. He decided it was his job to be invisible and stay out of their way. Of course, he had the option of leaving the road when a car approached, which is less than practical on a motorcycle and I would not advise it.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:41 AM   #163
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High-viz gear is like a highlight marker, it only enhances the actions or words behind it, and has no value on its own.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:55 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by jmq3rd View Post
What, do you have hi-viz gear that you have to turn on and/or adjust while riding?
Every time you enter a blind spot or encounter a distracted driver, it turns itself "off" and you need to take action to turn it back "on".
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:02 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Every time you enter a blind spot or encounter a distracted driver, it turns itself "off" and you need to take action to turn it back "on".

Nope. That would be the other things you should do whether you are wearing hi-viz or not.

Or are you saying that hi-viz turns into a disadvantage when in a blind spot?
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