ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2014, 12:00 PM   #181
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Oh, gee, after only four decades or so of fast dirt riding, I'm glad you came along and filled in all the blanks.

This thread is about turns. All I was saying is the same as you did, only I tried to do so in fewer words (unusual for me).

When riding dirt it is rarely beneficial to weight the inside peg. That is what leads to lost traction in turns and on side grades. I learned early on to put the weight on the side you don't want the back wheel to go.

3
I just get tired of junior racers saying there is never a reason to weight the inside peg. There is, quite often.
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 12:21 PM   #182
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Should have preached "don't be a candy-ass, LEAN!"

My bet is 99% know about countersteering, but don't trust leaning the bike into a corner, thinking the tires won't hold. So rather than lowside, which they likely wouldn't, they crash going off the road. Brilliant!

It takes some guts to simply lean in (or whatever) when it seems the bike won't go any further. Odds are it will. That was the main take-away from the Keith Code Superbike School that my friends took. When in doubt - lean in further. The tires are better than you are.

So my advice - Grow some grapes, when in doubt turn in harder.
+1

Arguments over countersteering and peg-weighting aside, I totally agree.

For me.. and my problem still is trusting the bike and tires to do the turn leaned way over. I know that they can, but the lizard brain in my freaks out. I suspect this is true for everyone not experienced and conditioned to really crank the bike over.

I liken to to learning to ride a dirtbike in deep soft sand. Everyone *knows* that in order to get through it easily and with good control, which also makes it fun, one has to crank the throttle open and keep it there to get the bike over a certain speed so that the front wheel floats over the sand and self-berms on turns. But for a newb in the sand (me, 1 year ago), knowing this doesn't make it easier to fight the lizard-brain reaction of "SOMETHING's WRONG! YOU ARE GOING TO FALL! SLOW DOWN!". Now a year later I blast down the washes with the smoker screaming and a grin on my face.

In terms of the street, I still have much work to do conditioning myself to really lean the bike over and trust it will make the turn. Unfortunatley, the public road is not the greatest place to practice this. Lots of variables, lots of obstacles, no runoff room if you fuck it up and usually a performance award from the cops when you do, hopefully without getting hurt.

My SV1000 isn't be most razor edge sportbike but it can flop over pretty hard. So when I miss a turn I can't and don't blame the bike.
For the dirtbike, a husaberg smoker, after seeing what Grahm Jarvis does with it, I can never ever ever blame it for anything at all whatsoever. I feel bad that the awesome dirtbike has such a lousy rider piloting it, exploiting only ... 20% of what it's capable of.

*edit - I found that yelling the proper instructions to myself in my helmet when the lizard brain starts to panic helps.
SteelJM1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 12:39 PM   #183
scootrboi
Beastly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
+1

Arguments over countersteering and peg-weighting aside, I totally agree.

For me.. and my problem still is trusting the bike and tires to do the turn leaned way over. I know that they can, but the lizard brain in my freaks out. I suspect this is true for everyone not experienced and conditioned to really crank the bike over.

I liken to to learning to ride a dirtbike in deep soft sand. Everyone *knows* that in order to get through it easily and with good control, which also makes it fun, one has to crank the throttle open and keep it there to get the bike over a certain speed so that the front wheel floats over the sand and self-berms on turns. But for a newb in the sand (me, 1 year ago), knowing this doesn't make it easier to fight the lizard-brain reaction of "SOMETHING's WRONG! YOU ARE GOING TO FALL! SLOW DOWN!". Now a year later I blast down the washes with the smoker screaming and a grin on my face.

In terms of the street, I still have much work to do conditioning myself to really lean the bike over and trust it will make the turn. Unfortunatley, the public road is not the greatest place to practice this. Lots of variables, lots of obstacles, no runoff room if you fuck it up and usually a performance award from the cops when you do, hopefully without getting hurt.

My SV1000 isn't be most razor edge sportbike but it can flop over pretty hard. So when I miss a turn I can't and don't blame the bike.
For the dirtbike, a husaberg smoker, after seeing what Grahm Jarvis does with it, I can never ever ever blame it for anything at all whatsoever. I feel bad that the awesome dirtbike has such a lousy rider piloting it, exploiting only ... 20% of what it's capable of.

*edit - I found that yelling the proper instructions to myself in my helmet when the lizard brain starts to panic helps.
I can't wait for Spring. Can't wait to find a clean parking lot to practice leaning way over. This thread is driving me nuts, just because of that.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 03:54 PM   #184
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
I can't wait for Spring. Can't wait to find a clean parking lot to practice leaning way over. This thread is driving me nuts, just because of that.
I can't imagine trying this in a parking lot.

It just ain't right.
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 04:09 PM   #185
joexr
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: S.E.
Oddometer: 3,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
I can't wait for Spring. Can't wait to find a clean parking lot to practice leaning way over. This thread is driving me nuts, just because of that.
Find one that's uncoated asphalt. The coated ones are slick.
joexr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 04:30 PM   #186
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 6,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Find one that's uncoated asphalt. The coated ones are slick.
Maybe he should just go fast enough to counter-steer and keep his balance in the coated ones, in case the bike slides out from under him.
__________________
'8yrs in the Marines, 'almost a decade of knocking heads in the service industry, I took a ride out to visit family and friends for Thanksgiving at 41yrs old, and my mom confiscated my bike.

Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 04:48 PM   #187
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Maybe he should just go fast enough to counter-steer and keep his balance in the coated ones, in case the bike slides out from under him.
Might have to lay er down…

Don't think you would learn much from that.
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 04:55 PM   #188
scootrboi
Beastly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
I can't imagine trying this in a parking lot.

It just ain't right.
Scooters are subtly different.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:06 PM   #189
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
I can't imagine trying this in a parking lot.

It just ain't right.
Argument invalid.





THE BIKE CAN DO IT!
SteelJM1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:17 PM   #190
MotoTex
Miles of Smiles
 
MotoTex's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Tool Shed
Oddometer: 1,517
You don`t have to go fast to drag pegs. It is easy and fun to practice in a parking lot with a good surface. That`s just one of several drills to do while waiting for folks to get ready to ride.
__________________

This is The Internet. Confirm for yourself anything you may see while visiting this strange and uncertain land.

MotoTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:49 PM   #191
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 8,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
No, you guys...Sneakers are more capable than 90% of the people wearing them. If one high-sided, it wasn't the sneakers. It was the wearer. If one low-sided, well...maybe it was the sneakers...or the counter...or both.
And most would save face by saying there was gravel on the kitchen floor and that's why they didn't make the turn.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:56 PM   #192
JohnCW
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 706
With all the talk of Keith Code, and my criticism of parts of his No BS Video (primarily that it dismisses or misrepresents important aspects), I though I should at least give the guy the benefit of the doubt and watch his video Twist of the Wrist to see what he has to fully say about cornering.

I haven't watched all of it yet as its quite long, a bit boring at times, mostly fairly basic stuff, and 100% cheesy. But I will watch the remainder later. So far I've got to the 40+ minute mark. However from what I've seem, anyone discussing cornering technique in these forums, saying its all counter-steering, and using Keith Code as a source, is completely misrepresenting what the guys is saying.

In the 40 minutes I been watching it, yes an appropriate coverage of counter steering has been given. AND just as much time has also been given to accelerating through a corner, hanging of a bike, braking control, the importance of a properly working suspension, etc. etc. What his video is saying is that many many things contribute to rider confidence and good cornering technique. From what I've seen so far I can't disagree with anything presented. As I'm watching I'm thinking most of the time that anyone with a fair bit of saddle time should have figured that out by now. But as his intended audience is probably beginner or intermediate level riders, the material is appropriate.

So perhaps I owe Keith Code an apology for his video, don't owe him one for being a lousy film maker, and don't own him one for allowing small sections of the video to be posted onto YouTube which I believe are significantly misleading people by being taken completely out of context.

The complete video does appear to be a good complete coverage of the subject for the beginner to intermediate rider. But it's still unbelievably cheesy. It most certainly is not a counter-steering video, and I would recommend it to a beginner or intermediate rider interested in the subject.
JohnCW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 05:59 PM   #193
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 8,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lep View Post
I only ride on the street and weighting the inside peg is counter intuitive to me so could someone explain what the theory is behind the above advice? I assume it is to help the bike lean over further but I'm not sure and I like to understand what I'm doing.

I'm a slow rider and don't move my bum off the seat to shift my weight but on tighter bends I move my inside shoulder forward and slightly outward towards the mirror. I don't consciously move my weight on the pegs but if anything I tend to weight the outside peg.

I've had a couple of "oh shit' moments when I've entered a corner a bit faster than was comfortable (for me). I've always known my bike (any bike probably) is more capable than me so forcing myself to keep my head up and look through the corner has kept me out of the weeds.
There's a lot of things inexperienced riders find counter intuitive about riding a motorcycle competently. From something as simple as using the front brake to standing instead of sitting while riding in sand ( A lot of riders have a hard time with that one). It's simply a matter of learning technique and consciously practicing it until eventually you apply it without any thought.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 03:34 PM   #194
scootrboi
Beastly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Argument invalid.





THE BIKE CAN DO IT!
That's a lot of witch's hats.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 04:44 PM   #195
Rango
Phaneropter
 
Rango's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: Kingdom of Belgium
Oddometer: 1,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
Argument invalid.





THE BIKE CAN DO IT!

Excellent post.

Love the Aprilia video. Japanese saying: "tires don't know it's raining."
__________________
Moriunt omnes pauci vivunt
Rango is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014