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Old 02-19-2014, 06:20 PM   #271
joexr
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[QUOTE=JohnCW;23508343]I give up........

You can't convince the ignorant. They just don't know any better.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:49 PM   #272
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suspension setup makes a HUGE difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Hi BC,
Another interesting observation is no one ever discussed suspension setup in a topic like "the bike just wouldn't make the turn". In fact its hardly ever discussed on motorcycle forums, period. Doesn't it strike anyone as unusual that pro-riders obsess with suspension settings to make a bike handle, yet the average road rider seems hardly concerned at all. More interested in the brand of oil to use. The difference in handling between a correctly set up bike and one probably unchanged in how it came from the dealer, is like night and day.
This is true even on ADV bikes. The responsiveness of my tiger can easily be changed by adding or subtracting preload on either end of the bike. More weight on the front wheel makes for faster handling and more responsive steering (and vice versa). I regularly adjust this to suit the conditions of the ride. I do MSF drills in parking lots at the start of every season and of many rides just to tweak the preload to get the feeling I want that day.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:38 PM   #273
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Something from Kieth Code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_5Z3jyO2pA
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:04 PM   #274
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won't make corner

After working several long days I was going home on south I 25 at the last exit by Santa Fe my motorcycle wouldn't make the corner! I was so tired I forgot to slow down I hit the exit about 85 managed to slow to about 70 then as I couldn't make the corner (loop) I went straight off the road into the desert. Got slowed enough to come back to the circle exit . the rest of the way to Madrid NM I was wide awake.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:42 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
It's actually this 5 minute extract from his full video of around 2 hours that I'm most critical of. By presenting just one element of cornering technique in this manner people are being mislead into believing that he is saying counter-steering is the be-all-end-all of cornering. In fact this small 5 minute extract from the 2 hour video is basically the beginners introduction section to the subject.

People just watch this 5 minute you-tube clip and them fill up threads like this with comments such as Keith Code says counter-steering is the only way to get around a corner. He doesn't say that, and actually devotes more time in the full video to weight shifting across the bike in the middle part of the video. The video covers a whole range of aspects of cornering from braking technique, throttle control, picking a line, weigh-shifting, suspension set-up, etc, etc.

IMO this you-tube clip is highly misleading if watched in isolation.

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Old 02-19-2014, 10:06 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by pizzaman383 View Post
This is true even on ADV bikes. The responsiveness of my tiger can easily be changed by adding or subtracting preload on either end of the bike. More weight on the front wheel makes for faster handling and more responsive steering (and vice versa). I regularly adjust this to suit the conditions of the ride. I do MSF drills in parking lots at the start of every season and of many rides just to tweak the preload to get the feeling I want that day.
If only the discussion of the subject could progress past lesson 101 "counter-steering" without someone wanting to constantly drag it back to it because this is the sum total of their knowledge. Just the subject of front rebound damping settings and spring weights and their impact on cornering could fill up several pages of useful discussion. This may actually be useful to someone trying to get their bike to corner better. The better their bike will turn in, the more confident they'll feel to commit to the corner, the more they commit the better will become their riding technique etc, etc. It's all an interrelated feedback 'system' between rider and machine.

And yes, Keith Code's video does cover suspension setup and its relationship to cornering, but it only touches on the basics.

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Old 02-20-2014, 05:14 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
Going as fast as this skill allows on the street would be idiotic. Having the skill to fall back on if you fuck up is not.
This.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:40 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
If only the discussion of the subject could progress past lesson 101 "counter-steering" without someone wanting to constantly drag it back to it because this is the sum total of their knowledge.
If only the discussion of the subject could progress past lesson 101 "weight-shifting" without someone wanting to constantly drag it back to it because this is the sum total of their knowledge.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:12 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
If only the discussion of the subject could progress past lesson 101 "weight-shifting" without someone wanting to constantly drag it back to it because this is the sum total of their knowledge.
This!
With so many poorly skilled riders in our country, I much prefer to have their single grasp of cornering knowledge be conscious counter steering input, not weight shifting and thinking that is what gets you around a corner.
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:50 AM   #280
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Well, I was just being tongue in cheek about any rabid recitation of one particular technique.

When taken down to brass tacks, a rider who overruns a turn should probably be more focused on improving their line choice, braking, and cornering theory first and foremost.

Positive control of the bike (counter-steering, front and rear brake, throttle control, etc.) would be next in the line of importance. (putting theory into practice)

Fine-tuning the cornering acumen with hanging off, before they have become accomplished at braking, apex choice, positive control, and have learned to comfortably lean to the point that things are getting close to dragging, is really getting the cart about half a mile before the horse. IMHO

Granted, once you have all these things in your toolbelt, then you can use hanging off as the last thing that might save your ass in a situation as described, however, if you have accomplished all those other things you likely won't find yourself in that circumstance in the first place.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:46 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post

When taken down to brass tacks, a rider who overruns a turn should probably be more focused on improving their line choice, braking, and cornering theory first and foremost.
Most probably woudn't even know what you're talking about.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:55 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
Most probably woudn't even know what you're talking about.
Yeah, you are right. Let me rephrase it:

When taken down to brass tacks, a rider who overruns a turn and who is interested in improving their skills should probably be more focused on improving their line choice, braking, and cornering theory first and foremost.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:39 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Yeah, you are right. Let me rephrase it:

When taken down to brass tacks, a rider who overruns a turn and who is interested in improving their skills should probably be more focused on improving their line choice, braking, and cornering theory first and foremost.
Yup. Prioritize. Hanging off aint usually at the top of the list.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:55 AM   #284
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Yup. Prioritize. Hanging off aint usually at the top of the list.
No, but it might just make the difference, if the guy knows what he's doing well enough to utilize it.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:36 PM   #285
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[QUOTE=joexr;23508389]
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I give up........

You can't convince the ignorant. They just don't know any better.
So true, so true.

Which is a pity because it is such an interesting and complex subject

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