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Old 02-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #196
TrashCan
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
OK, which hand is faster, the hand with the big numbers or the one with the small numbers?





I'll have to take my shoes off for the final answer.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:50 AM   #197
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I'll have to take my shoes for the final answer.
I get it. The feet are faster than the hands.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:53 AM   #198
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I get it. The feet are faster than the hands.


Yeah, they got more torque.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:57 AM   #199
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Yeah, they got more torque.
But are they geared correctly?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:01 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
@Paebr332
As I already stated, a bike CAN of course be geared to accelerate less than possible with a given power, but NOT to accelerate more than that. And of course the power in the equation is the power applied, what else could one think it could be? But you can NOT apply more power than the bike has. No matter the gearing.
Please, just stop. It is indeed entirely feasible to make a lower power engine accelerate much more quickly than a higher power engine via gearing alone. Since NO mechanical system is immune to power losses and all real-world systems are also affected by frictional forces your simplified equation cannot possibly capture the actual acceleration based on engine power alone.

A bigger heavier bike requires more applied force to overcome its additional inertia. There is also a physical limit to how much power can be applied to a tire before it slips and wastes the excess power as heat and noise. More powerful bikes usually needed bigger tires to increase the contact patch in order to overcome this issue, but that increases unsprung mass which reduces the speed at which the wheel can react to applied forces...

We operate in the messy real world. A simple equation based on engine "power" alone ignores many additional influential factors.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:07 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
Please, just stop. It is indeed entirely feasible to make a lower power engine accelerate much more quickly than a higher power engine via gearing alone. Since NO mechanical system is immune to power losses and all real-world systems are also affected by frictional forces your simplified equation cannot possibly capture the actual acceleration based on engine power alone.

A bigger heavier bike requires more applied force to overcome its additional inertia. There is also a physical limit to how much power can be applied to a tire before it slips and wastes the excess power as heat and noise. More powerful bikes usually needed bigger tires to increase the contact patch in order to overcome this issue, but that increases unsprung mass which reduces the speed at which the wheel can react to applied forces...

We operate in the messy real world. A simple equation based on engine "power" alone ignores many additional influential factors.
Apparently Mr. WR has never tried to hang on to a 250cc two stroke motocrosser.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:09 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
Please, just stop. It is indeed entirely feasible to make a lower power engine accelerate much more quickly than a higher power engine via gearing alone. Since NO mechanical system is immune to power losses and all real-world systems are also affected by frictional forces your simplified equation cannot possibly capture the actual acceleration based on engine power alone.

A bigger heavier bike requires more applied force to overcome its additional inertia. There is also a physical limit to how much power can be applied to a tire before it slips and wastes the excess power as heat and noise. More powerful bikes usually needed bigger tires to increase the contact patch in order to overcome this issue, but that increases unsprung mass which reduces the speed at which the wheel can react to applied forces...

We operate in the messy real world. A simple equation based on engine "power" alone ignores many additional influential factors.
If you want to get real simple about it.

F=MA

Thus F/M=A ......force being torque.

Which of course is the basis for the simple horsepower equation.

(RPMxtorqu)/5250 Which is essentially power divided by the angular concerns.....and hell of I'm trying to do the entire derivation on an internet forum lol.
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Apparently Mr. WR has never tried to hang on to a 250cc two stroke motocrosser.
Man I miss my KX250, that little fucker nearly killed me 100 times, but it was god awful fun.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:24 AM   #203
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If you want to get real simple about it.

F=MA

Thus F/M=A ......force being torque.

Which of course is the basis for the simple horsepower equation.

(RPMxtorqu)/5250 Which is essentially power divided by the angular concerns.....and hell of I'm trying to do the entire derivation on an internet forum lol.
But in Wraith Rider's mind he seems to think you can just plug in the mass of the bike (in Kg) and the power of the engine (in KW) and voila, exact acceleration of that bike (in m/sec^2). He really seems not to understand what gearing does and why it is so important. I also don't believe he understands how you can get more horsepower out of an engine with lower torque or vice versa. Hence his complete dismissal of torque as unimportant.

He is ADV's version of Jeremy Clarkson: the answer to all problems is "POWER!!!"

Paebr332 screwed with this post 02-11-2014 at 10:34 AM
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:27 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
But in Wraith Rider's mind he seems to think you can just plug in the mass of the bike (in Kg) and the power of the engine (in KW) and voila, exact acceleration of that bike (in m/sec^2). He really seems not to understand what gearing does and why it is so important. I also don't believe he understands how you can get more horsepower out of an engine with lower torque or vice versa. Hence his complete dismisal of torque as unimportant.

He is ADV's version of Jeremy Clarkson: the answer to all problems is "POWER!!!"
Remember, he also thinks you can compare bikes without considering the rider.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:34 AM   #205
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Remember, he also thinks you can compare bikes without considering the rider.
Bench racing can be a pleasant way to spend some time on a snowy day. But not much more than that.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:55 AM   #206
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Bench racing can be a pleasant way to spend some time on a snowy day. But not much more than that.
It has been a real long winter, even here in Alabama.

It always amuses me when people argue about which bike is the fastest when real world experience shows that the rider is much more important than the bike.

It's like the guy who can't keep up with his buddies so he gets a faster bike instead of learning how to ride.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:07 AM   #207
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I cannot help it. WR you are so clueless.

Having ridden a 400+HP Turbo'd 'Busa at Maxton NC there is absolutely no substitute for big horsepower no matter the gearing. When you have to feather the throttle at 170MPH to avoid wheelspin you'll understand. All the equations in the world cannot prepare you for that reality.

P.S. I used to own an RS125 Honda so I know both sides of the coin.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:01 PM   #208
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@klaviator
I thought better of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
...acceleration based on engine power alone.
Didn't you say we were talking about APPLIED power? Do you know what you're talking about?

@anotherguy
An equation describes the wheelspin phenomena very well.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:03 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
@klaviator
I thought better of you.



Didn't you say we were talking about APPLIED power? Do you know what you're talking about?

@anotherguy
An equation describes the wheelspin phenomena very well.
So completely clueless.
Ride you big heavy pig bike if you wish.

I choose not to.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #210
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I choose not to.
See, that's completely fine to my. I just don't understand, why you and so many others try to justify that with - physically speaking - bullshit.
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